Go with the 968 mo30 stuff

 

The sways or the full 968 setup?

 

I won't answer for Luke, but I will tell you that if you can find a FULL used 968 M030 setup with low mileage (<50k) and at a price around $1k (shocks/struts/springs/sways) then you should jump on it. However, this would be a relatively rare find at a reasonable enough price to make it worthwhile. You can do a similar setup but with upgraded all-new parts for less than $2k. The rear 968 M030 shocks incorporated helper springs and the fronts are similar to the 951S (single-adjust, height-adjust).

 

You can answer for me anytime skip

 

Yeah, Skip's right on the money, literally. I was lucky in that previous owners had been adding 968 bits all along. I was just the clean up guy, putting on the 30 mm front bar and finding matching control arm stuff at Oklahoma Foreign.

There are small differences between factory 968 M030 rear shocks and helpers and the Koni aftermarket sets as available through Paragon but not significant ones, I hear. Factory part is slightly less agressive (80 lb helpers available for example) than Paragon's Dutch Warehouse Treasure Find, right Skip?

Front strut spec can be reached any number of ways. Aftermarket like the Paragon kit may be preferable due to ease and cost of spring upgrades although I haven't really looked at that in detail. Three thumbs up to the factory plastic brake air diverters, though. I can tell how well then work by how much less dust I have to clean off the front wheels. Oh, the pads are still wearing, but it does blow the dust farther Probably not worth the price of two control arms just get this benefit, IMO.

 

What is the actual F & R spring rates for the M030
968 package ?

Thanks

 

Are the 968 control arms different from the Turbo or TurboS arms? If so, are they an improvement?

I'll be on the lookout for 968 M030 parts, but it'll take a lot of patience to find a full set.

-Ian

 

Dutch warehouse treasure? Hmm, that sort of intel can get you slathered in shock oil! The first 50 or so sets were the elusive NOS units from Holland, but the stuff we have now are Paragon exclusive new units - hence the slight price increase. They are valved slightly higher than the 968 units, and are also ride height and double adjustable (bump and rebound, separately) - that said, I think that qualifies them as being vastly superior. Still not a serious duty race shock like the 3012 or 2812, but pretty neat none the less.

 

IIRC, 180lb front and 25.5mm t-bars with 80lb helper in the rear. FWIW, these are not the elusive Turbo Cup progressive springs (180-410).

 

Turbo S arms are different, but not so much to make them worthwhile. Slightly stronger and less rubber in the front bushing AFAIK.

If you're serious about arms, there's unfortunately only one real (expensive) path to an upgrade - so discussed here (or on the main 944 forum - can't remember) in detail not so long ago. Hopefully, the Racer's Edge arms will be available very soon - as with all good things in low volume production, it's a brutally slow process.

968 arms are different in that they have the brake duct mounts mentioned above by Lefty. You can adapt the 968 brake duct to any arm with a little ingenuity.

 

Skip, the hits just keep on coming Just like the hilarious American Express commercial about "the Matrix", we must never speak about that warehouse in Hollard. Points well taken all around. Factory M030 968 rear coil overs are not adjustable for ride height and are only externally rebound adjustable, although there are two different helper stiffness options, I think. Rumor has it, the Atlantai dealership parts department guy asked my car's previous owner if he wanted the 80# or the 125# helpers when he ordered them.

Folks should appreciate the importance of Paragon's ability to supply two way Koni's for front and rear 951 applications, THAT's a factory connection worth a bunch to the serious chassis tuner. Two way adustable shocks, once you understand how they work, can make up for a bunch of spring stiffness without the bone jarring thumping associated with today's available 400#+ springs.

So where DOES someone find the Holy Grail of Turbo Cup progressive springs. Under lilly pads in the Black Forest?

 

Not sure - not positive, at least. I know there are supposedly only two rear coil-on rear shocks ever offered for the 944 series. Other than the 968 M030, the other was a "tow package" option. Not sure what the rate was.

Knockturn Alley, I do hear tell. 5 extra credit points if you know the relative location of this place. (extra credit worth nothing more than silent applause)

Honestly, I would try all the usual suspects like George (944ecology), Ian (944online), OK Foreign, Parts Heaven, 20th Street Auto, etc. Usually easier to simply go with aftermarket 2.5" race springs. If you really want progressive, we can do stackers.

Good Luck!

 

Hi Skip,
Got 2 question :

1. It seems strange that the rear total spring rate is more than the front.
Does this set - up not cause lots of nose dive under heavy braking ?

2. Would a 2.5 inch Front spring of 180lbs have the same comprasion
tension as the M030 Front spring.

Thank You

 

Knockturn Alley, I think is connected to Diagon Alley near Gringotts and is a very scary place to be shopping for parts As Rubeus Hagrid said, "Skulkin' around Knockturn Alley, I dunno -- dodgy place, Harry -- don' want no one ter see yeh down there..."

Understood on progressives. Really not a serious investigation at this point. My DE program is somewhat on hold until I come to a decision about tow vehicle and trailer. Content to enjoy the Turbo S as King Daddy Road Car and fiddle (read bend the rules) on my CSP 944 NA autocrosser for now. The prospect of wadding up a fast track car like a 952 without a ride home represents an important turning point in our family racing program.

As to tail vs nose spring rate, depends on your goals really. Autocross and street cars can benefit from stiffer tails, helps fight understeer. Once one gets into longer track driving and/or more ponies that happy tail can become a liability.

 

enjoying the suspension talk as i'm looking at what my next upgrade should be. skip, i'm thinking of your 200# front kit lowered to match the rear eccentric at its lowest setting (don't really want to mess with the torsion bars other than that). so far my '86 951 has koni sports-stock otherwise. will this be ok or too much understeer? (car is used for street & hope to get back on short track use when i can.) and would the 968 M030 rear bar balance it out? used with which bar in front would be best, stock or M030?

how much adjustment does the rear M030 bar offer? do the different settings make a large difference? similarly, are the 200# front springs a big difference in feel/handling from stock or not so much?

thanks for taking the time to answer all my questions--i'm sure this will also help many other with their planned upgrades.