ehall

The time you'll spend with your son, figuring it out, learning how to get around these cars etc. is WELL worth the price and effort. It will be a big job, but not really complicated. Just big. Just set up all of your tools, and follow the directions @ www.clarks-garage.com. Ask all kinds of questions. Rent tools you don't want to buy etc. If you take your time, it will be fun. Just be safe.

tom cooper

Thanks for the(mental) re-inforcement. I just took a look at Clark's site. WOW!

The only question I have is can the work be done on wheel ramps with jack stand backups, or will I need to use a lift? It looks like the suspension will buckle in when the X member is removed.

Any input will be appreciated!

Jeremy Himsel

The work can be done on jack stands and the engine can be supported with a home-made brace (using 4x4's) and chains. There is nothing hard about the job, it's just frustrating and time consuming. Little things like the x-over pipe to header and turbo bolts, steering shaft knuckle, the rubber power steering line going to the PS cooler, driver's side motor mount, and getting the pan to clear the pick-up all give you grief. Air tools make it much easier.

Eyal 951

Thats how I did it. Oil pan was one of my first jobs on the car too. you may be better of pulling the motor and resealing/rebuilding it if its histroy unknown. if the PO couldn't properly take care of the oil pan gasket, i'm sure it needs some TLC in oother seals, and areas. Just get the car reliable from the get go. Wish I did it like that. Trust me, my motor is going to get pulled sooner rather then later.
Its a great project for father/son. If you dont pull the motor, the PS rack does not need to be droped, someone said it does.
~Eyal

tom cooper

Jeremy,

Thanks for the input. I was wondering about the steerring rack as Eyal mentioned. Any further thoughts?

Also, is my assumption correct that I can not have the front wheels on wheel ramps? I will have to jack up and use strands? It looks like the control arms will fold up if I remove the cross member with the front wheels on ramps....

tom cooper

(fat fingered the last reply...)

ewainwright

"Also, is my assumption correct that I can not have the front wheels on wheel ramps? I will have to jack up and use strands? It looks like the control arms will fold up if I remove the cross member with the front wheels on ramps...."

You are going to need stands. Use OEM bearings and make sure all surfaces are absolutely clean prior to placing on the gasket. Its not a job that you'll ever want to repeat. Good Luck

tom cooper

Last question would be:

Use sealant or not on the gasket??!

jimbo1111

Use a good high heat silicone on the corners only.

tom cooper

Hey Jimbo,

Have you performed this particular feat? It kind of looks like the exhaust does not have to be removed if the cross member and steering rack are removed...?

Ahmet

I suggest you either fully read the procedure on a manual, or a reputable web site before deciding if you want to do this. Rennlist is helpful, but you're asking too many basic questions to be ready to start the job. I'm not saying don't (quite the opposite, it's doable but plan on a lot of time, and allow yourself several times that time), but it will be a time consuming process.

Anyway, to answer some of your questions, first you are correct the car has to be jacked up (make sure you use the proper jacking and support points). The cross over (exhaust) pipe will have to come off as well. I usually completely remove the subframe and not just allow it to hang from the control arms. As for the gasket sealent, I would NOT use silicone, but there's as many different takes on that as there are people on this board. I have a problem with the idea of gasket retainers, but I would highly suggest them. I've done the gasket job no less than 7 times on one car messing with different sealents and whatnot, and no retainers.

That brings up a point, I used a hoist to begin with, but later when customer cars took precedence (and the hoist!) I've done the job supporting from the engine from underneath only. I would not suggest that to you, as I can't be comfortable of your judgement of where to support the engine from (I did from crank pulley and bellhousing), but it is do-able.

I want to say one last time, I recommend that you do this job yourself, even if you wish to sell the car. However you do need to research it thoroughly first, and again make sure you allocate quite a bit more time than you think to the job if it's your first time.
Ahmet

ehall

Jeremy, do you have a write up about the hoist? It would be good for people who search later, if there was a write up or diagram posted to this thread. Clarks isn't really great for building the hoist. Thanks man.

Mike B

I did it twice. Once when I rebuilt it and for fun, apparently, as it turns out it was not necessary. Can you imagine? Mother F@#!*^. Alas, live and learn. I even had it diagnosed as a pan gasket by a tech with like 25 years experience!

I digress..if I had to do it again (which I hope never to do ) I swear I would just drop the darn motor. Radical? Perhaps, but I'll tell you it is such a royal pain in the a$$ doing it with the engine in the car that you would agree...forbid you have to go through it twice!

Brings up another thought. Just because you think it's the oil pan gasket doesn't mean it is. Apparently the upper balance shaft o-ring (back) on aftermarket seal kits is suspect as they are prone to leaks. This can look like an oil pan leak.

Hope this helps.

ehall

Tom,
Here's the write up etc on the engine hoist.



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Here's what I did, it's not exact but should give you the general idea.

The pieces are just 2x4's, measure them to fit, I just roughed it without a tape since it's just got to be "about that long." The triple 2x4 beam is put together using drywall screws every 8 inches or so. You'll want to fit that so it sits just in front of the shock tower mounts. Basically the back of it butts up against the upward bulging "rib" around the shock tower area.

The diagonal pieces were then fit and butt up against the back of the headlight buckets to keep the piece from sliding forward. There's not a whole lot of pressure against the buckets themselves once the engine's hanging from it, and the load is almost completely downward against the shock tower area. The angles on the bottom of the angled "legs" were actually pretty close to parallel to the beam itself but I just threw that drawing together in Visio and didn't feel like making it that involved. I'm sure you'll get the idea when you put it together though. As a bit of advice, it definitely helps to have someone else there to hold the wood while you put the screws through it on the "legs."

I used a piece of 3/8" cable with eyelets hooked onto the front engine hoist loop by the alternator. You could use chain too but that pretty well covers what you need. I did put a few more drywall screws through the triple beam itself near the part where the cable goes over the beam for reinforcement.

I had mine hooked up like this for a couple weeks and it wasn't showing any significant amount of bowing downward in the middle, maybe 1/2" or so if even that much. I would figure the load on it is maybe 300 lbs or so at most, but just to play it safe I'd recommend using chain or cabling rated for 4-600 lbs just to play it safe of course. Considering that the rear of the engine was supported via the torque tube and tranny mounts, it was probably closer to 250 lbs load on the 2x4's but as long as it's not old rotten wood, 3 2x4's seems to be plenty to hold it. You could probably even get away with two but I thought the extra one on top would help hold the "legs" in better as well as providing reinforcement.

If you need some more exact measurements and angles let me know, I kept it for future use in case I need to drop the crossmember. (I hope I don't have to, I would like to think my oil pan gasket job is bulletproof but I won't find out for a few more weeks until the car's finished and running again).

Anyway, it was a quick and dirty 20 minute construction job using some 2x4's I had at the house but it worked great.

BTW, I've got an engine hoist and I'd much rather use this. The hoist I have doesn't have any sort of locking mechanism and the hydraulic cylinder tends to settle over time causing things to drop slowly. It also takes a crapload of floor space while in use and for getting in and out from under there doing the pan job it would be a big pain in the *** having the bottom of the hoist in the way the whole time.

If you don't have the supplies on hand, you'll need 3 2x4's, a box of drywall screws thick enough to go through 2 2x4's (so 3" I believe) Put them through 2 layers of wood at a time, middle to bottom layer, then do the top to middle layer. You'll need a few feet of load rated chain or cable and something to secure it such as eyelets and u-bolts on the cable or bolts that fit through the middle of the links on the chain. I'd say you're looking at $20.00 or so at Home Depot if even that much or about $150.00 if you buy it at ACE Hardware (well maybe that's a tad exaggerated but they do tend to be a bit overpriced usually).
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