300 Flywheel HP on stock boost, Stock turbo, stock cam, stock head Possible?
09-08-2005, 11:31 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
The Welt chips only gave 40 hp on a "S" model, that's it.
Something got messed up in the transportation of information, here. You can't get 300 crank hp with the above described configuration.
Messing with race gas and air/fuel ratio will do nothing.
If you say you get an increase of 4 to 5 % with race gas and optimum advance, I would say that is healthy. So that's 10 horses.
An increase of 5% VE from the modded exhaust, I would say that's in the cards. So, that's another 10 horses.
Changing duty cycle from the cycling valve, in conjunction with less back pressure could possibly allow the boost to be maintained at 11 psi to redline. Maybe, this is considered still stock boost since it didn't "go over" 11 psi. ONLY IF this was allowed that would be another 30 horses.
So, the best case scenario, I'm gettin' 270 hp.
Something got messed up in the transportation of information, here. You can't get 300 crank hp with the above described configuration.
Messing with race gas and air/fuel ratio will do nothing.
If you say you get an increase of 4 to 5 % with race gas and optimum advance, I would say that is healthy. So that's 10 horses.
An increase of 5% VE from the modded exhaust, I would say that's in the cards. So, that's another 10 horses.
Changing duty cycle from the cycling valve, in conjunction with less back pressure could possibly allow the boost to be maintained at 11 psi to redline. Maybe, this is considered still stock boost since it didn't "go over" 11 psi. ONLY IF this was allowed that would be another 30 horses.
So, the best case scenario, I'm gettin' 270 hp.
09-08-2005, 11:44 PM
#34
Race Director
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by NZ951
So you are asking, can we get 80HP from more advance and race gas and trimmed AFR? I say, hell no.
Well throw in custom headers and exhaust and really good shop?
Yes 217 bhp stock vs 300 bhp That is about 80hp.
Hey read this quote and understand why I can posted this. (note F Class 951 is a K26/6 car with stock everything including boost. Prepared allows chip, but no change in boost)
Originally Posted by carreracup21
Hahaha, it's hilarious to think about the possibilities. Actually I think the fastest D car would be the F class 951 , double prepared with 10% weight reduction to 2610 lbs. , Turbo Cup chip= 300 hp, brakes upgrade, 2 inch wider wheels, big flares, wing ect. That car would be very very fast in D and hardly fair. BTW a prepared 951 in E class at 2899 did low 2:12's at WG this year while most of us D drivers were in the 2:13's. Now imagine that car 289 lbs. lighter at 2610. Ok how about the prepared RSA in C class running at 2760 lbs. that would now have to race against a C class US Cup at 2486 lbs. That would not even be close.
Originally Posted by M758
Hmm were do you get Turbo Cup chip= 300 hp.
According to the PCA classing a Turbo cup as 250 hp in D at 2770 lbs. Also boost must remain stock. Where is the 300 hp coming from?
Most 944 Turbo's can get 300 hp, but not by using stock boost.
According to the PCA classing a Turbo cup as 250 hp in D at 2770 lbs. Also boost must remain stock. Where is the 300 hp coming from?
Most 944 Turbo's can get 300 hp, but not by using stock boost.
Originally Posted by carreracup21
Well when you see a 944 TC pull you on the straight like you were standing still, you know whats up. Its common knowledge that those cars are pulling those kind of numbers ( around 300 hp easy). The F class 951 can be prepared to E class legally with a chip upgrade that puts out nearly 944 TC hp. I don't know what the boost numbers are and neither does anyone else when you go to these races. You just know that it doesn't seem right that they are pulling you.
Just as I expected a 300 hp "stock" motor 951 is not really stock at all.
09-08-2005, 11:48 PM
#35
Three Wheelin'
Uhmm, can I toss in another factor? Replace wastegate (legal?) And run "stock" boost to whatever redline.
I know that the 26/6 runs out of steam, but I think that the factory wg bleeds off a ton of boost before the turbo compressor becomes the real issue (based on my dyno runs Tial vs. stock)
It's just a suggestion, but I'm still very doubtful.
-J
I know that the 26/6 runs out of steam, but I think that the factory wg bleeds off a ton of boost before the turbo compressor becomes the real issue (based on my dyno runs Tial vs. stock)
It's just a suggestion, but I'm still very doubtful.
-J
09-09-2005, 01:07 AM
#39
Rennlist Member
Couple things here:
First, all the 964 Carrera Cup guys had to run in D class with the 944 Turbo Cup/Escort cars - so of course they will claim that "those other guys are running 300 bhp!" Now that the Euro 964 Cups and some of the USA 964 Cups are running in GTC1, most of those complaints and claims will probably disappear. Plus there are only a couple 944 Turbo Cup/Escort car that participate in PCA Club Racing.
Second, for the stock class, the chips must be what came from the factory. So what chips did a 944 Turbo Cup or Escort car come with? The US Escort cars came with 3 sets of chips from Porsche Motorsport North America. An ecomony chips for endurance races, a medium power chips for sprint races and a high power chip for qualifying. So which set is PCA "legal"? If you had all 3 sets, which one would you put in for a race?
The old PCA Club Racing rules had a note by the Cup cars that stated boost was limited to 1.0 bar (which is gage pressure or about 14.5 psi boost). And it is my understanding that the scrutineers still check and enforce this old rule. So you can get some pretty good power running 14.5 psi and an aggressive ignition advance (the one Escort car that I know of runs 100 octane straight). The 87 Escorts and the 88 Canadian Turbo Cups all had the k26/8 turbocharger.
Yes the listing shows only 250 bhp for the Turbo Cups, but it also lists 247bhp for the Carrera Cups and they are making in the 270 range or more. And I know that most of the well prepared club race cars in any class are making well over the published horsepower figures both legally and illegally.
And I will also say that I have seen two Turbo Cup cars that definitely were running a lot of power, to the point that it was obvious they were cheating. Well beyond what the "stock" turbo Cup/Escort chips and 14.5 psi boost would putout.
Also, most of the Escort and Turbo Cup cars were professionally raced in various series and venues after the Canadian Cup series and SCCA Escort series were over. Some ran in the IMSA races at Daytona and Sebring in the early 90's. This also includes the Euro Carrera Cups (including Le Mans). Who knows what all was done to these cars to make them competitive by pro teams. So when these types of cars show up to a PCA race, its anyones guess as to how legal they are.
First, all the 964 Carrera Cup guys had to run in D class with the 944 Turbo Cup/Escort cars - so of course they will claim that "those other guys are running 300 bhp!" Now that the Euro 964 Cups and some of the USA 964 Cups are running in GTC1, most of those complaints and claims will probably disappear. Plus there are only a couple 944 Turbo Cup/Escort car that participate in PCA Club Racing.
Second, for the stock class, the chips must be what came from the factory. So what chips did a 944 Turbo Cup or Escort car come with? The US Escort cars came with 3 sets of chips from Porsche Motorsport North America. An ecomony chips for endurance races, a medium power chips for sprint races and a high power chip for qualifying. So which set is PCA "legal"? If you had all 3 sets, which one would you put in for a race?
The old PCA Club Racing rules had a note by the Cup cars that stated boost was limited to 1.0 bar (which is gage pressure or about 14.5 psi boost). And it is my understanding that the scrutineers still check and enforce this old rule. So you can get some pretty good power running 14.5 psi and an aggressive ignition advance (the one Escort car that I know of runs 100 octane straight). The 87 Escorts and the 88 Canadian Turbo Cups all had the k26/8 turbocharger.
Yes the listing shows only 250 bhp for the Turbo Cups, but it also lists 247bhp for the Carrera Cups and they are making in the 270 range or more. And I know that most of the well prepared club race cars in any class are making well over the published horsepower figures both legally and illegally.
And I will also say that I have seen two Turbo Cup cars that definitely were running a lot of power, to the point that it was obvious they were cheating. Well beyond what the "stock" turbo Cup/Escort chips and 14.5 psi boost would putout.
Also, most of the Escort and Turbo Cup cars were professionally raced in various series and venues after the Canadian Cup series and SCCA Escort series were over. Some ran in the IMSA races at Daytona and Sebring in the early 90's. This also includes the Euro Carrera Cups (including Le Mans). Who knows what all was done to these cars to make them competitive by pro teams. So when these types of cars show up to a PCA race, its anyones guess as to how legal they are.
09-09-2005, 07:07 AM
#40
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Originally Posted by Campeck
its already done. lol
skunkworkz. i havent seen him around. if yall remeber my thread on the NA board about the dyno session. he has the 180 rwhp NA with headwork and exhaust.
anyway. if i remember correctly he had 260-280 rwhp with just a chip.
but maybe he was running more boost. i cant remember to well.
all i know is it was a chip...and thats it..and he was making rediculous amounts of power (so everyone said) for a k26/6
skunkworkz. i havent seen him around. if yall remeber my thread on the NA board about the dyno session. he has the 180 rwhp NA with headwork and exhaust.
anyway. if i remember correctly he had 260-280 rwhp with just a chip.
but maybe he was running more boost. i cant remember to well.
all i know is it was a chip...and thats it..and he was making rediculous amounts of power (so everyone said) for a k26/6
09-09-2005, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Campeck
read what I wrote. i was there when the car put those numbers down. (the numbers i THINK were put down)(and now that i think further. he stressed that that was the ONLY thing on the car. was chips. so im geussing stock boost.)
09-09-2005, 08:54 AM
#43
Campeck Rulez
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wait...NORWAY?!?
arent you the guy that has that shop down here in GA? we had the dyno day? moterworks or something.
what are you in norway for...if thats you.
arent you the guy that has that shop down here in GA? we had the dyno day? moterworks or something.
what are you in norway for...if thats you.
09-09-2005, 10:28 AM
#45
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I really don't see how a stock 944 Turbo with stock boost can reach 300HP. Also, weren't the Turbo Cup cars basically a Turbo S? It was my understanding that the Turbo S was built to match the Turbo Cup specs. As to running race gas, that's really not going to make much difference on a stock car unless you are turning up the boost.