ENGINEERMAN

Hi everyone:

I have a 1986 944 Turbo that is putting out about 325 HP (estimate). It has older shocks/struts in it (Koni Red's in rear, Yellow's (non-externally adjustable) front) and they are fairly soft. I do some local track days in the Minneapolis area with the car and would like to take it out on BIR big track. The times that I have taken it out at a local 1.3 mile test track the rears felt soft and were bottoming out. I beleive that the rest of the suspension is stock and the car has an LSD transaxle. I have 18" wheels with 285 Bridgestone S02s in rear and 235 Falkens in front. Right now the car is very well balanced, does not push or oversteer but feels a bit "wallowy" for those quick transitions you see on the track even though it does seem to hook up well once the suspension has taken a set in the turn. I think that I would like to upgrade the shocks and potentially other suspension items to eliminate that floaty feel and am looking for your input.

I have had several recommendations ranging from Koni dual adjustable with coil overs in rear & adjustable perches in front to a complete Bilstien Coil over system, both are over $2000. I can get a brand new set of M030 Koni fully adjustables for around $875 as another alternative. I would rather not spend a small fortune for that last 5% if I can get 95% there forsignificantly less.

The car is driven as my daily driver and I am not necessarily looking to go out and be the fastest car at the track but would like a good compromise set up and am also considering camber plates for those track days.

I would like to ask your advice since I am sure that there is a wealth of experience on this topic out there AND if anyone has a good set up for sale that is in good working order would be interested in talking with you!

Thanks in advance!

Tom

I

macnewma

I would look at either Koni Yellow inserts/shocks or Bilstein inserts/shocks all around (~$6-700 I think), Koni Yellows with height adjustable front + stiffer springs/torsions (~$1000-1100), or Bilstein Firehawk (~$1300).

Personally, I would go with either the Bilstein inserts/shocks or Bilstein Firehawk since it is your daily driver. Check with Paragon.

If you do some searching you will find alot of feedback.

TheRealLefty

Agreed on the Paragon recommendation. Between Jason and Skip they're personally aware of a ton of 944 suspension knowlege and make very honest recommendations. They are Koni specialists and assemble their own adjustable perch front strut systems to a high standard.

azmi951

Do the Koni setup from paragon it inthe front and in the rear I like the KLA setup.

KLA uses a coilover QA1 which is an oil filled aluminum adjustable shock. It has a 12 position **** and is good for street cars since the range of adjustment is so broad. By no means is it the best race shock but it is a good all around shock. I used 10 inch 80lb/inch springs ($40) for the rear helpers and it stopped me from bottoming out. Since the springs are so cheap you can really play around with them too.

toddk911

My mech. installed the Bilstein coil overs on a track car that already had a nice set up.

They said it was NIGHT AND DAY. "best handling car we have ever tested"

cruise98

Bilstein does not make an insert for the turbo strut. They do make adjustable height struts with at least two standard valving setups. You can customize the valving for whatever spring rate you are running, it just costs a little extra. Bilstein also makes two varieties of shocks, regular gas pressure shock, and a coil over style. One of the regular styles is a stock replacement, and the other is a match for the struts valved with 380/190 and the shocks are valved at 400/200. The coil overs are way overkill for what you are talking about. They are the cup racing setup.

For a street car, the easiest, least expensive option is the Koni sawzall struts, Koni sport shocks, stock springs and torsion bars, and add the 968 M030 sway bars. Option two is the Bilstein replacement shock, custom valved Bilstein strut, stock springs and t-bars, 968 M030 bars. Option three, which is what I run, is the custom valved Bilstein strut with 250# springs, custom valved Bilstein shock with 28mm tbars and the 968 M030 sways.

On the '86 and earlier cars, the upper strut mount is very sloppy. Lose it and use a KLA, the factory 968 mount (pricey), or any of the myriad camber plates out there.

If you go with the 968 M030 sways, you will have to purchase some new front mounts to fit the larger bushings. A minor expense.

If money is no object, you have the choice of Motons, Ohlins, Leda, JRZ, ABC, XYZ and who knows what else. CDOC has some interesting packages for our cars as well, but I am only familiar with the Bilstein, FS, and some Koni's. ABC and XYZ are jokes guys. It is silly Friday!

macnewma

Actually, you can still do Bilstein strut inserts. Talk to SH944:

https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...lstein+inserts

ENGINEERMAN

Thanks for all the good feedback! So far I think that the following items seem to make the most sense:

1) KONI adjustable front strut inserts.

2) Paragons Ride Height adjustment kit and 200lb springs.

3) Either spherical bearings to locate the struts or Camber Plates (so that I can dial in more camber for track days) to eliminate the slop under cornering loads. From what I can gather flat plate camber plates use up about 1" of suspension travel and since I want to lower the front and do not want to limit the suspension travel I am hesitant to use them. I really don't want to spend $500 for a set of Racing Dynamics ones that has the OEM strut location and so I think that I will just go with a set of spherical bearings unless someone has a pair of Racing Dynamics for sale. I am debating whether I really will gain much from them (camber plates) if I just plan on using street tires (not R compund) what do you think?

4) A 968 30mm M030 Front anti-roll bar

5) KONI Yellows in the rear &

6) A Weltmiester 22 mm rear sway bar.

What do you all think? Is that a decent set up? Does anyone have any of these components that they would like to sell? If so feel free to let me know.

Thanks!

macnewma

Looks like a pretty good setup. I would double check with Paragon to make sure that will be a balanced setup.

dand86951

Check out Racer's Edge camber plates. I believe they do not take up any extra shock travel or change the ride height and thus would give you either stock height or lowered with maximum amount of shock travel still available along with the ability to change camber for track days.

a4944

Depends on how much you plan on tracking the car. I already had Koni Yellows so I went with the Paragon coil over kit in front with 350 lb springs. I went with a 30mm torsion bar in the rear. I went with the M030 sway bars. It's stiffer but I think it's fine, although it's not my daily driver so I don't have to deal with it every day. It still does not transition as well as I would like but the shocks could be worn, they are original. I run the same size tires all around and the made the balance very neutral. This setup has done well at the track all the way up to instructor level.

I run Rs now and I would love to go to 500lb springs and a 34 mm torsion bar. This has become mostly a track car. I still drive to/from the track. I have friends with BMWs running 500 lb springs on combo track/daily drivers and they are OK with the ride. Roads are pretty good in NC though.

Be warned, swapping the torsion bar is an exercise in frustration. I had trouble with it but that was a long time back and I have forgoten the pain. I'm toying with the idea of doing it again (34 mm bars). This was a large job. It wasn't my daily driver so there was no rush. It would be tough to do in one day on a daily driver, especially without experienced help.

Mark

pk951

One more bit of info on my car i am using 350 lbs-inch coils with Bilstein escorts no TB mo-30 bars on smooth roads fine, rough roads different story to stiff. Street i would go no higher than 25-mm TB, with Koni yellows.

Oddjob

Tom,

Check your PM and get in touch with me. I can give you some pointers and help with info and instructions here locally in the twin cities.

Last event up at BIR is coming up first wknd in OCT. Driver school for novices still has openings.

TRACKIN951

Dad, your gonna stop at 200lb springs
Well you have driven my car with the 275lb and 28mm bars, honestly I think I would have even a little bit stiffer up front. Granted you do have the sway bars and 18" wheels already to help stiffen up the ride a little bit. So you could do that option, It would definetly help out the soft ride in the rear and lowering the front a little would help out a good amount. If I were to do it again, 28mm Tbars, or coilovers(which I cant afford) Konis all aroud ARHK with 325ish spring rate, and the sway bars. That would probably be a good street/ track setup!

ENGINEERMAN

Oddjob (Jim):

How can I get in touch? Feel free to send me yor contact info at tom.braun@colder.com. I would value and appreciate your inputs. There are so many different inputs and experiences that others are so generously offering that it is hard to decide. I have a complete Koni Adjustable set up with anit-roll bars and springs from Racing Beat on the Miata and it is amazing (Dustin knows, he has driven it).

I have been talking with Bob @ Auto Edge and he sure seems to know his stuff. He strongly recommends going with the Koni double adjustable coil over set up in the rear as the best long term solution because it has the adjustability that can come in handy depending on track conditions. He says it is great on the track AND much less harsh on the street than torsion bars. He also recommends the 968 M030 Sway bars and per my sons advise, an adjustable ride height kit and double adjustable Konis in front (now I have to see how much money is left in the bank account...haha).

Right now Bob is installing a Lindsey Racing Mafterburner system, Innovate wide band O2 sensor, 48lb Siemens injectors (mine are still stock and are limiting the performance) and Lindsey Racing chips.

I might be interested in taking part in the BIR track event in October if I get it all put together and sorted out (BIR can be famous for melting down motors from what I hear and I want to make sure that there are no lean spots in the MAP). For now, I am having fun taking part in Bill Groshens events at St Cloud. Drove the Miata last time and want to take out the 1981 RX-7 in September. Maybe the 951 will be all sorted out by October.

Hope to talk to you soon Jim. Dustin have you located any autocross action in Tampa yet?