theedge

Oh and ill post a picture of what im using for a boost control solenoid this evening. Picked two up this morning, $44CDN each. Just Mac Valves that are about the size of a Bic Lighter. Theyll do vacuum to 120PSI and have super fast switching speeds and all that.

My only concern is that the ports are fairly small, so hopefully that wont create issues. If they do, ill ebay them to the Subaru people. Theyre what another company sells for $80+USD each as a solenoid that works well with all sorts of Standalones (Hydra, etc). I got two for $88CDN straight from Mac The Subaru guys love em.

Zero10

Okay, so you are running the daughter board, and no MS-II?
I was looking into it, and had figured that MS-II was the way to go. I must have missed that part of this thread.

So, no boost control without the daughter board, and only one input for the sensors? That is the motivation to use it?

Is it possible to run MS-II as well? (the higher data rate for data logging, and faster processor should both really help in deciphering the sensors). Then again, it's only 15KHz, at ~2 samples/pulse, maybe 15 operations/sample, we're at 450kips, or 0.4mips, roughly 10% of the MS-I's processor time just for reading the speed/reference sensors, that is acceptable, but I do suspect it is about 3x what is optimal.
I thought the MS-II could do everything that the MS-I could with all of the add-ons.
This is fascinating, and I am glad I am not the tester on this one, since I would probably have a big pile of spare parts that I can't use, lol.

I thought the router board was necessary for sequential injection, I forgot all about COP, I'll probably just run wasted spark however, and use the distributor's present location to mount a cam sensor somehow. (If I ever get around to this).

Zero10

theedge, do these boost control solenoids just control the wastegate? Do they replace the BOV?... My brain is fried from all of these manuals, lol.

inactiveuser92616

I dont understand half of the electronics babble you guys are going on about, but its got me excited! Hopefully will understand and maybe able to contribute in a semester.

Zero10

Hahaha, stuff like flip flops?
They are just a very rudimentary data storage device (Well, really they are a finite state machine, FSM, which is a model of a deterministic finite atomaton, DFA, but that's a whole different can of worms)
It's all simple once you get down to it, it's just a matter of getting down to it

DanG

Couple of quick responses:

Brian, those MAC valves sound good. I have a thick catalog from Clippard (pneumatics company) at my desk, but of those work well enough for you, then I won't bother digging into it. Are these the valves rumored to be equivalent to the Perrin EBCS?

Zero, the solenoids are just for electronic control of the boost/atmosphere line to the wastegate. Unfortunately the MS guys have only hammered out a reliable open loop control right now. You set a desired pulse width and frequency for the solenoid and just tweak the values until you get the boost levels you want. The closed loop operation is still a little buggy, with some boost fluctuation. But they'll probably get it hammered out soon enough, and a small fast-switching solenoid would be a big help to that effort.

The daughter card is just a conveinent collection of a bunch of commonly used "add-on" circuits for the -extra firmware. Basically just combined all the mini-circuits on each page of the -extra features and put them all on one PCB. So you can do EBC or dual signal decoders or EGT or whatever without the daughter card, it will just be a tad messier.

The choice between MS+extra code and MSII is features over speed/processing power. The MSII will be king in another few months or a years time. But until the nifty features of the -extra code are rewritten to run with the MSII, I'll stick to the MS+e.

Last thing is I believe you can run 4 cylinder true COP without a router board. There are 4 unique ignition outputs. They're required to be able to run waste spark on a V8. The router board is only necessary to run sequential injection (hello individual cylinder tuning) and COP on engines with more than 4 cylinders.

Zero10

I am 100% interested in sequential injection, so it sounds like the router board is for me

Interesting, I completely neglected the fact that the MS-II is a new thing, lol. I forgot it takes time for people to adapt what they already have to accomidate it. I thought I remembered hearing that it had less functionality in select areas than the MS-I had, but now I suspect that is simply due to a lack of development, not a lack of basic functionality.

Perhaps the MS-II is for me, I hate to admit it, but deep down I'm an assembly/C guy, with far too much free time (well, not right now, but next summer...). Thanks!

DanG

Yup, the MSII plus the upcoming CAN and Router boards will be an incredibly powerful system.

theedge

The pivitol problem I guess you could say with MegaSquirt as a whole is the two different processors, MS1 and MSII. The Extra firmware runs ONLY on the older MS1 chip. Its the one that does dual wheel decoding, boost control, basically all the kickass little assorted features. MSII is faster and all that, but its a different chip so the firmwares arent interchangable. There are no plans to port Extra to MSII, as MSII is a stepping stone to test some other stuff. Now, to blow your mind some more, there is a board in the works that is the best of both worlds.... Its a dual processor MegaSquirt system Basically an MS1 CPU running Extra, and an MSII cpu together in the same case. One does wheel decoding, one does everything else. This is in early testing, but it shows promise. This is another stepping stone on the way to UltraMegaSquirt (think a 150Mhz CPU, loads of memory, lots of I/O, etc).

You can do boost control, water injection, shift lights, all that stuff without the daughter board per se. All that stuff requires extra circuitry to do, so someone just designed a board to do it all in one little package. Its fairly cheap, $60 or so I think (www.glensgarage.com sells the kits for everything). Adding the EGT amplifier increases the cost, but is only needed if you want to use the MegaSquirt to datalog EGT probes. If you have a Zeitronix or similar, that addon isnt needed and itll save $25 or so on the Daughter board. Extra circuitry is needed for bigger transistors to drive the solenoids, things like that. Basically the daughter board is just a timesaver over doing it all yourself

Personally ill just be doing wasted spark and bank injection. Seqential is nice, but its only benefits emissions wise are at low RPMs, and none of the current MegaSquirts can do individual cylinder stuff. Sequntials big plus will be for people with monsterous injectors and nice idle. I just sent payment for the famous (infamous???) 55 pound, 461RWHP injectors, so my idle will be fine in banked setup I think. I can switch later on, ive wired my injector harness to allow for whatever I want to do.

theedge

These are the ones I got ones that are slightly different, mine have an LED in the top housing (or theyd better...) and a connector for the wiring. Other than that, the same thing.

macnewma

I don't see why sequential is worth the extra hassle. Wasted spark seems good enough and it doesn't require the cam sync.

If this trigger conversion circuit works out, I will probably give the MS a shot. I think it would be an adequate standalone.

Zero10

As for EGT, I would rather have it seperate.

The MS's boost control seems a little worrying, but maybe it works just fine. Their method seems pretty strange. Why not just run an EBC with it?...

Very useful information, my brain hurts all over again, lol.

theedge

Dual settings. IIRC itll give you a boost setting for each map. That was something that pissed me off no end about my Profec A. No easy switching. So when that poorly designed product broke due to is ****ty design, I went with MS's boost control even if its a little odd Its not going to be NEARLY as odd as a fuzzy logic driven boost controller that requires me to break the law in order for it to work.

Zero10

All very interesting, but one question still bugs me.
How are you driving the instruments?

JustinL

I ended up buying Darklightning's MS2, so I'll be wading into the fray aswell. From what I understand, MS2 is doesn't have a wheel decoder. The only two options that I see right now for MS2 triggering are 1. wait for the router board 2. Ford EDIS system. The router board seems like a more elegant solution, but I haven't heard if it will be available before our Canadian testing season begins (summer).