Mahle 100.5 and 101mm Pistons
03-25-2005, 10:37 AM
#16
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If the price is right i would be interested too. The way i see it, there are also other options out there,the Darton mid sleeves looks promissing as these liners are much tuffer than alusil bores which are prone to scarch easy. But if Mahle will be asking 1600$ or so US for these pistons, i see no reason why they will not, not certain there will be the same excitement. But at least you will the option of buying Mahle pistons. Looks good for the 951.
03-25-2005, 11:34 AM
#17
I would be interested in a set. I have a block that was scored too much for the 1st overbore pistons that I bought. I was considering sleeving the engine but going with factory pistons would be preferable if they were available.
03-25-2005, 11:42 AM
#18
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If one were to go 101mm pistons, what
would be the cost of boring the block ?
I guess the total cost would be something
like 2000-2300 USD including pistons.
If it were me, I would go to Chris White.
3000 plus, I get a 2.8L with mid sleeves
to boot. Sorry Guys, that's just me.
would be the cost of boring the block ?
I guess the total cost would be something
like 2000-2300 USD including pistons.
If it were me, I would go to Chris White.
3000 plus, I get a 2.8L with mid sleeves
to boot. Sorry Guys, that's just me.
03-25-2005, 11:57 AM
#19
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Avg cost for boring and alusil, cleaning pass and chase head stud threads is around $300-$500, all depends on the machine shop. Some are +/-. Chris is certianly a great option as well.
keep the comments coming.
keep the comments coming.
03-25-2005, 12:15 PM
#20
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I called Mahle USA a while ago about getting 104+ pistons, and had a very similar conversation. At the time, however, I was left with the impression that Mahle USA and Mahle Germany may not be connected as tightly as they could be. Is the Feroprint material being used by Mahle in Germany/worldwide now? I almost got the sense that the feroprint material was Mahle USA's way around US environmental regulations, while the "real" stuff was still back in Germany (i.e., that the feroprint material was akin to another "aftermarket" attempt to fill the void). Maybe I got the wrong sense about that though, and I'm not sure it matters either way. At any rate, it might be worth posting over on the 928 board, as I recall seeing a few threads there about the Mahle USA feroprint pistons. I imagine some of the 928 guys have some miles on them now.
p.s., I ordered 105 pistons from Tom C earlier this week. If all goes as planned, we should have another Tom C piston tester on the road this summer.
p.s., I ordered 105 pistons from Tom C earlier this week. If all goes as planned, we should have another Tom C piston tester on the road this summer.
Originally Posted by Ski
I just had a very interesting conversation with a gentleman at Mahle. As we all have seen in recent threads, there is shortage of MAhle pistons in the two factory oversizes, 100.5 and 101mm. Yes Tom C has an aftermarket solution but some still believe it's a bit unproven for the long haul; we have had great success but I thought I would call Mahle.
To get to the short of it, I expressed that there would probably be great support World Wide for both oversize pistons, as the cars age and suffer cylinder damage. I mean Jim and I alone have 3 sets of aftermarket pistons going in use. I also mentioned how many people were looking for good blocks due to scoring, etc.
The person is going to come here, register, and join to see how much support will be generated for the start up Mahle aftermarket pistons in 100.5 and 101mm. The type of factory coating that is presently available is Feroprint, which is presently on the pistons with the Cayenne, many BMW and Mercedes. Ferostan, the original factory coating is no longer available because of environmental regulations. Feroprint would work in Alusil bores, no problem.
He got out both sets of drawings of the 100.5 and 101 pistons, they were right there in his book and he was going to talk to his boss down the hall.
So, if you would be interested in a set of 100.5 and 101mm factory pistons, coming in cheaper than the high $1695, post up a Yes. No approximate price was talked about but he was almost certian they could beat that with no problem.
Mahle is going to look here to see the support/interest and may post a question themselves. This is not a 100% certian event but...
Interst? If so, gimme a yes.
To get to the short of it, I expressed that there would probably be great support World Wide for both oversize pistons, as the cars age and suffer cylinder damage. I mean Jim and I alone have 3 sets of aftermarket pistons going in use. I also mentioned how many people were looking for good blocks due to scoring, etc.
The person is going to come here, register, and join to see how much support will be generated for the start up Mahle aftermarket pistons in 100.5 and 101mm. The type of factory coating that is presently available is Feroprint, which is presently on the pistons with the Cayenne, many BMW and Mercedes. Ferostan, the original factory coating is no longer available because of environmental regulations. Feroprint would work in Alusil bores, no problem.
He got out both sets of drawings of the 100.5 and 101 pistons, they were right there in his book and he was going to talk to his boss down the hall.
So, if you would be interested in a set of 100.5 and 101mm factory pistons, coming in cheaper than the high $1695, post up a Yes. No approximate price was talked about but he was almost certian they could beat that with no problem.
Mahle is going to look here to see the support/interest and may post a question themselves. This is not a 100% certian event but...
Interst? If so, gimme a yes.
03-25-2005, 12:26 PM
#21
Slightly off topic but why aren't there more guys doing 3.0 turbo's based on the 968 engine? I would think that for the cost of a sleeved 2.8 you could almost complete a 3.0 968 turbo.
03-25-2005, 01:22 PM
#22
Is TomC using a straight AL piston with a poly coating? Is this the experiment?
03-25-2005, 02:10 PM
#23
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Not 100% sure, but it took them 3 or 4 tries to get the composition right for the thermal expansion. Iron/graphite coating, with the graphite tending to hold on to the oil a bit longer. I wouldn't call it an experiment, we have used 3 sets, I know that at least 5 other people on turbo applications, about 10 on N/A in use, one set of 2.8L 101 about to go into use...etc. His test bed for the NA cars was his daughters. I've just recv'd some mail about the long haul, ie 80-100k. Who knows? I think we all want to keep the breed alive; he has a present solution, Chevy, Mopar, Ford all have aftermarket stuff available for their old breed(much easier application of course), I just called Mahle.
3.0 blocks that I've seen are going for $2.5-3k +/-, then pistons for turbo application, machine work if needed, 8 valve head(modify 2.5 or find a 2.7 head), turbo, injectors, MAF to feed that volume, engine management, that's a $6-9k engine pretty soon depending on your level of work. For that money, Chris White or Broadfoot could send a 2.6-2.8L to your door, you might even squeak by from David Raines - well, on second thought....
3.0 blocks that I've seen are going for $2.5-3k +/-, then pistons for turbo application, machine work if needed, 8 valve head(modify 2.5 or find a 2.7 head), turbo, injectors, MAF to feed that volume, engine management, that's a $6-9k engine pretty soon depending on your level of work. For that money, Chris White or Broadfoot could send a 2.6-2.8L to your door, you might even squeak by from David Raines - well, on second thought....
03-26-2005, 02:55 AM
#24
I've seen entire 968 engines for sale on e-bay for $2.5 K As for the other stuff (injectors, turbo, MAF, etc.) a lot of those items have to be bought regardless of what the displacement is of the engine. Unless you plan on running the stock 26/6 with the 2.8 - which most people by that point are not doing.
Can one still buy factory 968 turbo pistons? Are the stock 968 rods strong enough for a turbo application? What is wrong with using the stock 968 head?
Can one still buy factory 968 turbo pistons? Are the stock 968 rods strong enough for a turbo application? What is wrong with using the stock 968 head?
03-26-2005, 03:08 AM
#25
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Originally Posted by SoloRacer
I've seen entire 968 engines for sale on e-bay for $2.5 K As for the other stuff (injectors, turbo, MAF, etc.) a lot of those items have to be bought regardless of what the displacement is of the engine. Unless you plan on running the stock 26/6 with the 2.8 - which most people by that point are not doing.
Can one still buy factory 968 turbo pistons? Are the stock 968 rods strong enough for a turbo application? What is wrong with using the stock 968 head?
Can one still buy factory 968 turbo pistons? Are the stock 968 rods strong enough for a turbo application? What is wrong with using the stock 968 head?
03-26-2005, 02:54 PM
#26
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Not sure how I missed this until now Bret...
YES!
If you race this motor and want to remain strictly legal for most sanctioning bodies, there are precious few choices... this one would be MOST welcome...
YES!
If you race this motor and want to remain strictly legal for most sanctioning bodies, there are precious few choices... this one would be MOST welcome...
03-27-2005, 03:57 AM
#27
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Originally Posted by Tom M'Guinn
p.s., I ordered 105 pistons from Tom C earlier this week. If all goes as planned, we should have another Tom C piston tester on the road this summer.
I know the 2.7 motors went to 104mm, but they too only offered a .5mm overbore according to PET? Maybe someone could elaborate on this.
Dan
03-27-2005, 04:06 AM
#28
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Originally Posted by dand86951
Tom, just a comment or question here about going out to 105 in the 2.5 litre bore. Does anyone know for sure that the aluminum/silicon matrix goes all the way through the bore wall? IIRC I read something that indicated the silicon matrix was not all the way through and that is the reason Porsche only offered the max .5mm (.019) overbore??
I know the 2.7 motors went to 104mm, but they too only offered a .5mm overbore according to PET? Maybe someone could elaborate on this.
Dan
I know the 2.7 motors went to 104mm, but they too only offered a .5mm overbore according to PET? Maybe someone could elaborate on this.
Dan
03-27-2005, 06:43 AM
#30
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Originally Posted by dand86951
Tom, just a comment or question here about going out to 105 in the 2.5 litre bore. Does anyone know for sure that the aluminum/silicon matrix goes all the way through the bore wall? IIRC I read something that indicated the silicon matrix was not all the way through and that is the reason Porsche only offered the max .5mm (.019) overbore??
I know the 2.7 motors went to 104mm, but they too only offered a .5mm overbore according to PET? Maybe someone could elaborate on this.
Dan
I know the 2.7 motors went to 104mm, but they too only offered a .5mm overbore according to PET? Maybe someone could elaborate on this.
Dan
-John