NZ951

Ok here is my current timing map. I think I should add a little more timing on the cruise rows and maybe a degree or two under boost. Suggestions from the experts please! Currently running pump gas and 19psi.

special tool

What the F$@@$%^&&^$$ck is KPA??

NZ951

kiloPascals

Come on dont play dumb with me! It's MAP! The values represent the middle of the row. In MAP, this means 15kPa either side. Think of it like boost in Bar. So 225 is 1.25Bar (which is cell for 1.10 - 1.40bar) and so on.

Bengt Sweden

I know kPa, but perhaps that doesn't make me an expert.
I wouldn't dare to make any recommendation regarding timing in the search for max hp before knock since it depends on so many factors. However it could be interesting to test different values for improving off-idle response. Below 2250rpm, which is fairly common in city traffic, perhaps some more advance could help? 10 to 23 is pretty steep.
Bengt

Laust Pedersen

NZ,

If you can change timing while the engine is running then I’ll suggest the following for the no-load values:

Spin the engine to each of the listed rpms, fix the accelerator there while adding a few degrees of timing and listen if the engine goes up or down in rpm. If it goes up then add and if it goes down then subtract the timing in the file.
Repeat above until engine speed is not (or minimally) affected by a timing change. It is very unlikely that there will be any pinging at no load.

It is a good idea (as you have) to have constant timing around idle. This will lower the potential for idle oscillations.

Optimizing timing under load is a little trickier, but can be done while driving (on an open road) with one foot on the brake and the other on the accelerator while listening for the first sign of pinging and adjusting the timing accordingly.

Laust

NZ951

I have the Link knock block so I can listen for knock well, I will just go out and do it I think. Does 20degrees at full bosst on pump seem about right? At which point should timing increase when approaching redline?

hally

With an aftermarket turbo, would you expect the part throttle timing (and fuel for that matter, after catering for injector size) to be the same as those of us running around with a k26. To put it another way, i am wondering if tuning a garrett / k27 etc would be limited to addressing the full throttle map only. Maybe u don't have the PT / full throttle separation with your standalone setup but the concept could be the same. Hopefully this question makes some sense to someone.

Laust Pedersen

Hally, If you draw the boost curve on the table above (1 bar absolute = 100 kPa and 19psi boost = 231 kPa) then you’ll realize that the lower left corner of the table is not used. The cells just around the boost curve are the WOT cells and the cells maybe around 35 kPa are the no load cells. Every cell in between is a part throttle cell.

Laust

NZ951

Updated timing map...

Corleone

NZ951!

Did you ask Performance Development about PCLink Version 2.2 will display ignition numbers? As I told you before my numbers decreased by 10 with the new software but i didn´t noticed any change in performance. Do you think that the displayed ignition numbers is the "real" ignition? What version do you use of the Link sw?

Tomas L

Corleone has a point here. Do we know that this is the real timing values? If I understand it correctly you Link guys have an adapter box that converts 951 sensor signals to a 60-2 flywheel signal? And this box can be setup with different timing offsets, it moves the stock reference sensor mark to another point when it converts sthe signal to a 60-2? You then have to tell the software what point the reference signal is at so it will display the correct values. If there is a differencebetween the sensor signal and the value you put into the software then you will see wrong values.

The same more or less applies to us with Motronic, we don't know if the conversion from binary values to degrees that we use is correct. It doesn't matter that much as long as we compare with other Motronic users.

Hally, I more or less agree with you. If the DME only uses the TPS WOT signal from the KLR to switch to the WOT map then any adjustments for a different turbo can (almost) be limited to the WOT map. The "almost" is because you may want to smoothen the transition to the WOT map by using "intermediate" values in the high load cells in the PT map.
But I'm not really sure about this, you may have boost without beeing in the WOT map when driving uphill in high gear, so perhaps you need to tailor the upper part of the DME map for your turbo also?

Tomas

Danno

No the issue is one of static base-timing. This is selected by the DIP switches on the adaptor board. In as-shipped configuration, base-timing is set to 13-degrees and the values in the ignition tables are additive on top of base-timing. So real timing is those table numbers +13. I prefer to reset the DIP switches to set base-timing as close to zero as possible, then the ignition table figures are more indicative of actual ignition advance. Another benefit is being able to program in 5-6 degrees BTC for idle values.

Also to really fine-tune each ignition data-cell, you need a load-dyno and the throttle-clamp that Laust talked about. This will allow you to keep car operating at a fixed zone on the 3D map. The method to figure out best ignition value is known as "best torque" for that cell. You set a conservative igntion value, then measure the torque-output. Then slowly advance the ignition and notice that torque increases. At some point, you'll find a plateau where torque ceases to increase with more ignition advance. A couple of degrees more advance will then start the avalanche of knock/detonation and you'll see torque drop. So you want to set ignition values back to the initial values where the plateau begins. Then add load or RPM and repeat with the next data-cell.

As you can imagine, this can get very time-consuming and expensive with high-resolution 3D maps. Some people pick spread-out points on the map to tune, like very 1000rpms, then interpolate the values in between.

Tomas L

But what is static base timing really? Isn't it where the Link gets it's crank reference signal?

Tomas

Corleone

Can someone tell me how to set "dipswitches" on the adaptorbord and what "static timing" vaules is to be set in the software? I thought that the adaptorboard switches only was set to have the right trigging for just our cars. Isn´t it so?
My static set for now is "10". Should I set this to Zero? And then the figures in the table is the right ones?

Corleone

This is mine! Is the real timing values this in the table + 13 degrees?

Whats then the use of "10" in static timing in the software?