Porsche-O-Phile

Lemmee get this straight - you paid almost $3,000 for an ENGINE ONLY with a hack-job fuel rail, bad lifters, damaged pistons, pitted cam, bad bearings and cracked oil pan?

If this is what really happened, you got RIPPED. That said, a bid is a legally binding contract and "caveat emptor" unless the guy flagrantly misrepresented the condition.

It sounds like that engine is a decent rebuild candidate, but probably not worth more than $500-$600 as is.

Buckaroo Banzi

Porsche-O-Phile:
Check it the link for your self :
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...e=STRK:MEWA:IT

I feel he flat out lied to me and that this motor was not running at all...

NZ951

In case no one has welcomed you yet Banzi... welcome aboad!

Porsche-O-Phile

Ditto, welcome.

It does look like a clean engine in the ads although I still doubt it was worth what you paid for it - maybe $2K, not $3K for a 2.5L turbo. For $3K you can get a good 3L (not turbo-ed though).

Anyway, is it possible the thing got banged up in shipping? That would explain the cracked pan. As far as the cam & lifters. . . they go. If the engine wasn't run in a while, they likely didn't have oil on 'em and maybe got surface rusting (?)

The pistons might be good, although I'm not sure what you mean by "smiley faced". Did the valves hit 'em? Busted t-belt? All the 951 pistons I've seen have a dish in them that's kind of rectangular-shaped but not really "smiley faced". Are they n/a pistons? (!)

Zero10

I was watching that auction, considering that engine, but the price was too high for me. I am really glad I didn't bite on it. So far it seems like gross misrepresentation, bordering on fraud.
If the lifters are that bad, then either the thing clattered like mad, or he ran it a very long time ago. I'm not sure which one.

On the up side, you also got a DME, KLR, turbo, wiring harness, etc. Although it sounds like the wiring harness isn't so nice. Did get some spare parts...

I presume you have already removed the head? This will make it difficult to return.

billgot

I bought a Running 3.0L motor in great shape for $2600 from 20th street auto. Here is thier web site http://www.20car.com/ I had no problems with them and talked them down quite a bit from 3200 to $2600 you might have some luck with them.

Peckster

Big ouch.

Buckaroo Banzi

No damange in shipment I could see, it appeared to be well packaged useing orginal cross member and bolted to a pallet..
I only found the crack in the pan when I went to clean it up. alot of caked on oil in only one area on the pan and it made suspicious so I used some degreaser and it did not work I tried brake cleaner that did not work then I tried overn cleaner that worked it appears to be a crack that has oil in it opens up when the pan gets hot and just seeps out it must have been that way for a very long time.

The lifters where checked with oil in them they are not rusted but did show wear on the walls which I understand is normal. The cam however showed abnormal wear and one of the lobes has a 1/16" chip or pit of the high part of the lobe how it got there is anybody's guess.

The piston's have dents in the dish part of the piston I thought at first they where valve reliefs however 951 pistons don't have valve reliefs. These did meet up with the valves at some time in the past and they meet up hard this was not some gentle kiss it was hard and fast and it resulted in what appear at first glance to be very prononced vale reliefs. What effected this had on the rings I don't
however the claims made in the ad show great numbers however IMHO leak and comppression tests
are only a patial indicator of the overall condition of a motor. One of the things I look for is how well was it maintained when I drained the oil on this motor a quart or more of water flowed out first followed by the oil which was liken to tar the drain plug had at least a quarter inch of black engine fillings stuck to the magnet I conclulded from all this is that the motor had been sitting for some time and was not very well maintained.

The latest is, the seller and I are in complete disagreement about the condition of the motor he claims I am switchings parts and can't understand why I would disassemble a motor with such great leak test numbers so he thinks I am setting him up he just happens to be overlooking the reason I started the tear down was because of the welded fuel rail anyone who would sell a motor in this condition and call it safe is in my opion certifiable.

sorry for the long post this whole thing is maddening.

H964

take my advice and do this: contact ebay, and tell them about the problem, the car you bought is insured by ebay up to 20k$ , so if anything the description is not the way it is on the car ebay will pay you all the necessary repairs that the car need to be as described by the seller. it happened to me once, i sold a car to guy and a week later the head gasket blew up ,and the clutch, ebay paid everything.
so dont worry you will be allright

Buckaroo Banzi

Thanks for the input, My hell is over an engine not a car.

However you do pose a question I need to investagte does e/bay insure all items including engines?

I have contacted my credit card company e/bay and Paypal " and the beat goes on and the beat goes on" sorry, I am in EBAY HELL!!!! " I am shrinking I am shrinking "

RogueM3

You need to look at it from the sellers perspective as well. I am by no means saying you are at fault but he might not have known the condition to be as bad as it is when he sold it.

I know the add says the motor ran very strongly...but was he the owner of the motor in the car or is that just what he was told about the motor.

Nobody ever wants to take back a product after selling it an incurring shipping costs...especially if they didnt know the item was defective.

**I am just trying to play the opposite side here..I agree that engine is not worth the price paid..nor is it acceptable for you to have to deal with his misrepresented motor.**

turbite

Peckster,
in those 4000+ posts, have you ever posted anything useful?


As far as the lifters go, thats no big deal, even if you replaced all the "bad" ones, it would just be different ones the next time.
I had four do that last time, but they worked just fine and make no noise...

Travis - sflraver

Just playing from the seller side here for a sec. so we can get all the points in here. He did say it ran strong when it was in the car. He said that it held pressure on the leak down test. It did come with everything stated in the auction. Nothing seems to be obviously misrepresented in the auctions listing.
When it comes down to it, you purchased an old, used motor that was said to run strong. I am sure the buyer didn't inspect the oil pan for cracks because that is something that is not all that common.

The upside to it is that the parts to bring it up to spec are not all that expensive. The early 944 used the same cams as the turbo. They are in an abundance on ebay/rennlist/todd. Oilpans can also be found for relatively little money. The wiring harness ends can be found at your Porsche dealer (yes they have replacements). As for the clutch... I would put a new one in while I had the motor out anyway no matter how good the used one looked. The head should be redone while you have the motor out anyway.. around $200 if no bent valves. Main seals... again.. you have the motor out.. Change them. I would have anyway.

From what I see, which is just my opinion and should be taken with a grain of salt, is that you paid too much for the motor but the seller did his best to describe the product in the auction. Fight it, Fix it or F*** it... its up to you. It doesn't seem like anyone is deliberately wrong here. Its just a series of unfortunate events.

Zero10

Stupid question, but the early cams were the same as the turbo cams? Cool!
I also heard that you can swap an N/A cam into a turbo to reduce turbo lag, and increase power (I guess that would mean a late N/A cam?) Do you know if that is true?...

DHC8FO

Yah I saw someone trying to hawk a 944 NA cam on ebay claiming more power. Come on if it were really a better set up, don't you think porsche would have not gone through the additional expense of engineering a new part, just to reduce power? For what it's worth.