david fracolli

I too would love to hear some comments about that head as I am seriously thinking about having the same thing done to mine.

Skunk Workz

Only one thing to do. You have a choice. Get a bigger bladder,or drink more.

Skunk Workz

Absolutely not worthless. It's been made ready for 35+psi boost. Now you just have to make the rest hang together at that boost,and the head is just fine... Nah,I'll quit joking .

If you have more flow in the port,without widening the cross-section just before the valve guide,like it seems that you might have on this head,you have a better head than stock. But if you gain flow by widening the whole port,and keeping the stock port shape...you'll probably gain a little at redline rpm,because that would be the only place the charge "comes up to speed"...and lose everywhere else.

<- As I just read that the head have been severely widened,I'm not sure if you like to read this part...if you get any gain at all,my bet is 95% of it is because of ignition/fuel/higher compression-reasons,and just a tad of it due to flow...

Chris White

Think ‘systems’ approach.

If you bolt that head on an other wise completely dead stock engine then it will not do anything ‘special’ and quite possibly drop off your low to mid range torque just a tad.

If you really want modifications, especially those directly effecting the air flow, to work you need to make sure that the ‘system’ is modified or adjusted to accommodate the mod. So if you are bolting that head on an engine that has a larger turbo, different wastegate set to a higher boost level, modified engine management then it may well make more HP.

Another thing to keep in mind when I use the catch word ‘system’ – you need to define what you want to accomplish (and ‘more performance is not an acceptable answer!)

Defining what you want ot accomplish is a very important step in modifying – and don’t take it too lightly as there are consequences for every action.

Do you want more max HP? Then you will give up low to midrange torque.
Do you want to support more boost? Then you will not have as good spool up or off boost response.

To a certain extent its all give and take, so defining your goal and understanding the implications is pretty important.

Chris White

PS – did you do anything to the manifold to work with the porting?

Skunk Workz

Supporting that,Chris...It's all about "harmony",not about having a few things capable of enourmous peak hp,if those engine parts can't co-operate you'll end up probably having an engine that is worse for overall use than the stock one.

m42racer

Mr White, I look forward to your next post.

I'm confused about something here. You bring up these subjects, then state is worthless discussing them. If I may be as bold as I have been up to now, you Sir talk in circles. You trash what I say ( your privilege ), you become very specific to make your point, then you say things like its give and take.

Yes I did say "wrong and well tested" and you Sir said "Nope wrong on many counts". "People in Glass houses".

Not only is this new Wet Flow Testing ( air and dye ) catching on, the very latest technology is flowing Liquids under pressure thro the ports. Mr White, if you had attended the Racing trade show in the UK at the beginning of January you may have seen this new technology and its benifits. Under these conditions and tests, it has been found that the liquid does provide similar actions and results. What was interesting was who attended the seminar regarding this new technology. It was a who"s who's of race engine design.

You Sir are entiled to your opinions, whether they are correct or not. So is everyone else on this board.

ehall

Ywan...ah a good niights sleep! I think I need to...PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS SSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That has to be a winner!

Tomas L

Nope, you forgot to address your opponents with "Sir" to make it more patronizing. Also you should mention that you've met people that really know how to ****, to imply that you got some of their knowledge.


PS. the quality of the thread is decaying towards the abyss. DS

m42racer

You are right. It has lowered. I take the blame for this. Sorry to all.

Its Sunday and I'm still waiting! I'm glad I'm not the only one around here to open mouth and insert foot.

This is my last post on this subject in an honest effort to get back to the real reason this forum is here.

ehall

Seriously, is this like technonerd smack down? The bottom line is pretty obvious. If all you do Is make the ports larger, and more smooth, without addressing the corresponding air flow componentry, in it's entirety, then you are pissing in the wind. It doesn't take a PHD in Jack--- to know that liquid water, and gaseous oxygen, will never flow identically. Turn the water into steam, and you MIGHT get closer, but still not exact. Ask yourself this, do water and air eroded natural objects in the exact same way? NO. So cut the crap. No one thinks that there is nothing to be gained from water testing. Neither should anyone think that there is anything other than theoretical testing that can be done wihtin a combustion chamber of one of our engines.
All that said the original question was, should I polish/port my head. NO! Absolutely not! If you want to have that done professionally, I'm sure that the people on this board can direct you to a professional of quality. If you choose to have it done, please be advised that Porsche has already done a great job on the head, in the application for which it was designed. It did win its class a LeMAns, and without an extensive overall system change/ upgrade, you will be very hard pressed to find anyone that can cost effectively redefine the head, for greater performance. It is, afterall, your money, and we wish you the best. I'm certain that the technonerd MAfia feels very sorry for hijacking your perfectly legitimate post, but they can't help that some of their brains, are larger than their....well, anyway.
A couple of them got their puny little feelings hurt when they felt challenged by......wait for it.....a friggin computerized "bulletin board", thousands of miles away, that doesn't even exist in the tangible world. I'm sure they are very sorry.
Now, whose up for a rousing game of Dungeons and Dragons?

ehall

Nope, you forgot to address your opponents with "Sir" to make it more patronizing. Also you should mention that you've met people that really know how to ****, to imply that you got some of their knowledge.


PS. the quality of the thread is decaying towards the abyss. DS

Sorry sir!

RogueM3

Is the Guru head as shown on Page 4 a ported and polished head...what are the specs on that..I cant seem to find Heads at all on the Guru site.

Would something like the Lindsey Racing Stage 1 kit be beneficial: No porting..just a valve job, surfaced deck, and replaced valve seals and guides. I figure this is probably the best head for up to and including a k27/8?? (any thoughts on whether or not it would be beneficial to step up to a stage 2 (adds port and polish) ) with a k27/8?

Thanks guys.

A link to the LR Cylinder Heads:
http://www.lindseyracing.com/Merchan...de=944CYLHEADS

-Richard

ehall

RogueM3,

Give Dave Lindsey a call tomorrow. I've talked with his brother, Mike, at length about this, and a number of other related topics. My experience is that they tend to throw the "bigger everything is always better philosophy" at problems. That is not too say that they don't do a super job, and are really great guys to work with, I've been thrilled with my experiences with them, it's just that there are a large number of really well qualified tuners out there, that can do the same, or perhaps a better job. Don't be over blown by their web site. I used to be, that's why I say that. Unfortunately for them, their site is so good, that it allows a lot of people to window shop without buying. You get great ideas there, and it's cool that they do that, but Milledge is great. Vittesse is great, but doesn't show anything on his site about porting heads. Guru is equally good, but Danno doesn't show even half of the things that he offers on his site. Contact them all. Get good info. Call Milledge last, and then compare what everyone else says to that. The guy REALLY knows his stuff. I'm not sure anyone is better, nor do I think I'll get much argument from anyone about that.
Lastly, the car you get will certainly benefit from a really good valve job. If all is stock and 15+ years old, then it's really a no brainer. Ofcourse, if you're going to do the top anyway....you get the idea. Do it all.
Despite my sarcasm in my other posts here, most of these guys really are very well educated in arena of 944 engines. I actually followed this becuase of the amount of knowledge displayed. I learned a good bit. I just thought we needed to get back to reality in a big way. Let's face it, a lot of people have died in some terrible violent way, during the period of time that this thread has been acrimoniously meandering.
So ask Skunk, or Chris White, or M42raver, and you'll get some real good advice. Then ask the same questions to all of the vendors that I listed. Just remember the most important question. What do YOu want out of your car? What is your baseline objective? Go from there. Cheers, E

Eyal 951

the ports on my head are just at the first 40% of the port or so. It has been widened, and resshaped, but blends very well into the stock port, the other bottom 50% of the port. So no, not the entire port has been enlarged, not by a long shot. The valves got a fully radiused valve job, and the head was milled quite a good amount. I didn't do the head to see the gains right away, though i expect some improvements. I did it to benefit me as I go. Larger turbo will be even better with the head. Cam will be even better with the head, etc etc. The intake manifold has been port matched to the head as well.
Thats not a crack, its a surface blemish that caught the flash oddly.
~Eyal

RogueM3

Very Solid Info...thanks very much. I too followed this thread with great interest..as even though it was a pissing contest from the near start....it still provided great info regarding the "optimal setup". Bigger is better is attractive to those with big $$ and without the energy to research..for that the LR site is excellent.

I will definantly keep reading and learning before I dive into any modifications....

Do you have the contact info for milledge...a website I can check out perhaps?

Thanks again.

-Richard