AEM EMS in a 944/951/952
06-02-2011, 04:16 AM
#48
Three Wheelin'
John's Motronic editor will probably be the best bet. As soon as you realize how much it takes to tune EVERYTHING from scratch with a standalone, the better. Porsche provided enormous amounts of R&D/tuning towards the stock boxes and you can't get a better "base map" than that.
Standalone is the best bet for any serious engine build and in those days any decent standalone can be tuned to have no ill effects (bad starting, crappy cruise or whatever) with no excess time.
06-02-2011, 10:19 AM
#49
Three Wheelin'
The only time I justify a standalone is with a proper standalone (Motec, Bosch Motorsports, Haltech) and if the motor just happens to have a ton of money and work into it. It would be stupid not to invest in proper tuning after spending over 10k on a motor build. If the stock ECU is powerful enough, I don't see an issue with using it either.
If you don't know a thing about them, please don't spread wrong information.
06-02-2011, 10:53 AM
#50
Three Wheelin'
So the best bet is to drop 1000+ on a standalone and then another 500+ to have someone else tune it? If you are new to standalones, there is not one you can find and tune because you aren't a tuner. Finding others base maps online will leave you stranded with flooded motors or even popped ones. You could --try-- and spend time perfecting cold start maps and tip in enrichment maps and so on, or you can start with the best base tune there is.
The only time I justify a standalone is with a proper standalone (Motec, Bosch Motorsports, Haltech) and if the motor just happens to have a ton of money and work into it. It would be stupid not to invest in proper tuning after spending over 10k on a motor build. If the stock ECU is powerful enough, I don't see an issue with using it either.
The only time I justify a standalone is with a proper standalone (Motec, Bosch Motorsports, Haltech) and if the motor just happens to have a ton of money and work into it. It would be stupid not to invest in proper tuning after spending over 10k on a motor build. If the stock ECU is powerful enough, I don't see an issue with using it either.
The V8 guys usually have had on going realiabilty issues that drive them to do the V8 thing but that swap also gets rid of the stock wiring harness with it's host of issues.
I don't have a dog in this fight, just saying!
06-02-2011, 02:18 PM
#51
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What will you recommend for a mild build car? here is my plan: bigger turbo (something in 55ar range), 80lbs injectors, 8lb flywheel, wais gate, bigger intercooler,3 bar fpr, bov, boost controller 24lbs, methanol injection, 3in strait pipe from turbo to the end. And what power will I make approximately? Thanks for every ones time.
06-02-2011, 02:20 PM
#52
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What will you recommend for a mild build car? here is my plan: bigger turbo (something in 55ar range), 80lbs injectors, 8lb flywheel, wais gate, bigger intercooler,3 bar fpr, bov, boost controller 24lbs, methanol injection, 3in strait pipe from turbo to the end. All this on 87 944 turbo. And what power will I make approximately? Thanks for every ones time.
06-08-2011, 02:51 AM
#53
Three Wheelin'
Like, today? It's 35 C here, it's 95 F. That shows that you need to learn a bit what's the life is outside US.
2. About regulations? What, are you a stupid *****? We have all the regulations that other EU countries have and that means annual MOT on EVERY car that is driven, NO EXCEPTIONS!
3. What's the octane ratio has to do here? We have all of them available: 98 (93 in US), 95 (91 in US).
FYI, I have installed and tuned standalones for nearly 10 years by now so I know thing or two. And that includes some serious engines (600 hp 993 TT engines that are both street driven and tracked, 900hp MB 5.5liter supercharged engine, basically a SLR McLaren engine with different ECU, 800 hp BMW M20 engine with radical cams, STILL passed smog test).
And as I agree that it takes some time getting all the compensation tables excellent, it is still less fuss than reverse engineering 30year old technology.
Dunno what's your experience but your recommendation with stating that there are only few standalones worth installing is just plain stupid.
You should try to look and understand a bit what's it like outside your world and not just give questionable recommendations.
If you disagree, let's then just agree to disagree.
06-08-2011, 03:06 AM
#54
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06-08-2011, 03:06 AM
#55
Three Wheelin'
Ok, that was maybe too much but your opinion that Estonia is probably a renegade country where no regulations apply, is sorta ignorant and insulting, don't you think?
Perhaps it is news to you but we are member of EU (and NATO also) for quite some time by now. That means that the emissions regulations from EU also apply.
Regarding your statement that new harness is costly. What exactly cost so much in harness? I mean, you can buy brand new JPT 2pin, 3pin and 4pin connectors for like 1-3 euros a piece depending on pin count and if you cound money, then just buy new pins (100 pc box costs 8 euros). Buy decent crimp tool for 25 euros and high quality silicone wire (0.5-0.75 mm2) that will cost about 100 euros for engine harness. Special factory-grade fabric-type insulator tape costs around 3 euros a pack (you'll need 3-4). That totals around 200 euros in parts and one can make it in a week if doing it 2-3 hours a day. And that is for newbie.
I wouldn't recommend using PVC wires but these are used by factory and they do their job, just it's not as good as silicone.
Perhaps it is news to you but we are member of EU (and NATO also) for quite some time by now. That means that the emissions regulations from EU also apply.
Regarding your statement that new harness is costly. What exactly cost so much in harness? I mean, you can buy brand new JPT 2pin, 3pin and 4pin connectors for like 1-3 euros a piece depending on pin count and if you cound money, then just buy new pins (100 pc box costs 8 euros). Buy decent crimp tool for 25 euros and high quality silicone wire (0.5-0.75 mm2) that will cost about 100 euros for engine harness. Special factory-grade fabric-type insulator tape costs around 3 euros a pack (you'll need 3-4). That totals around 200 euros in parts and one can make it in a week if doing it 2-3 hours a day. And that is for newbie.
I wouldn't recommend using PVC wires but these are used by factory and they do their job, just it's not as good as silicone.
06-08-2011, 03:18 AM
#56
Three Wheelin'
I've had tuners come from the other side of the pond and blow up motors with their tuning. It's a different environment and I am sticking to it. I am also sticking to what I said about standalones from a financial and logical standpoint.
If anything, I am jealous of the better gas and better weather over there (I have yet to find a weather report that shows 95 degree weather in Estonia).
If anything, I am jealous of the better gas and better weather over there (I have yet to find a weather report that shows 95 degree weather in Estonia).
It's 9 AM at the moment, so at the moment it's around 25 degrees C here, but yesterday we had 35 C and today the forecast also expects 35 C. So if you want to know, check later.
And that is also nice and factual comment about "tuners from the other side of the pond". There are good and bad tuners in both sides, but why would you care about such a small detail?
If you did not intend to insult me, then I'll take back the *****-word.
06-08-2011, 03:51 AM
#57
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Their gas is just like ours:
US uses EKI and Europe RON. Also it gets hot overthere also and in the last couple of years humidity becomes a factor.
US 91=EU95
US 93=EU97.
Just to add:
( RON Octane Rating x 0.95 = AKI Octane Rating )
98 RON Octane x 0.95 = 93.1 AKI Octane (US measure)
100 RON Octane x 0.95 = 95 AKI Octane (US measure)
Lots of people think that way, but they are the same gas.
06-08-2011, 06:33 AM
#58
Three Wheelin'
The gasoline with 10% ethanol is very seldomly sold at this time and when sold, it's done separately to distinguish it from regular gasoline.
E85 is also sold but unfortunately local big-boys are trying to minimize selling it because it would hurt the profits that would otherwise come from regular high-taxed gasoline (E85 would be much cheaper).
E85 is also sold but unfortunately local big-boys are trying to minimize selling it because it would hurt the profits that would otherwise come from regular high-taxed gasoline (E85 would be much cheaper).
06-08-2011, 08:55 AM
#59
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What will you recommend for a mild build car? here is my plan: bigger turbo (something in 55ar range), 80lbs injectors, 8lb flywheel, wais gate, bigger intercooler,3 bar fpr, bov, boost controller 24lbs, methanol injection, 3in strait pipe from turbo to the end. All this on 87 944 turbo. And what power will I make approximately? Thanks for every ones time.
06-08-2011, 09:17 AM
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My take on the stand alone issue –
I have had to fix quite a few systems that were installed by self-proclaimed experts – including shops that claim to be professionals.
To really get it right you need to know a lot about the software/hardware that you are working with and the engine you are working on – and you also need to understand real hard core engine theory. I would guess that 90% of all the ‘tuners’ out there are just repeating something they saw someone else say or do with no real fundamental understanding of what it does.
The one most overwhelming thing a standalone offers is the extreme number of WRONG settings. Piggybacks at least start with a stock tune and let you modify a small number of parameters. Standalones start with a blank screen with 1000’s of variables. The initial learning curve is very steep!
Most standalones come with some generic base files….sometimes this is just the crutch a person that does not understand engine theory needs to make the engine start. Then they rely on the 90% of the settings in the base file for their final tune.
Choose your supplier with at least the same amount (or more) of care that you choose your standalone system.
BTW – from his various posts I can tell that Raceboy knows his theory and can fabricate what he needs – that puts him in the .01% category of 944 owners that can make their own major mods and successfully tune them – don’t assume that many others are capable of the same achievements!
I have had to fix quite a few systems that were installed by self-proclaimed experts – including shops that claim to be professionals.
To really get it right you need to know a lot about the software/hardware that you are working with and the engine you are working on – and you also need to understand real hard core engine theory. I would guess that 90% of all the ‘tuners’ out there are just repeating something they saw someone else say or do with no real fundamental understanding of what it does.
The one most overwhelming thing a standalone offers is the extreme number of WRONG settings. Piggybacks at least start with a stock tune and let you modify a small number of parameters. Standalones start with a blank screen with 1000’s of variables. The initial learning curve is very steep!
Most standalones come with some generic base files….sometimes this is just the crutch a person that does not understand engine theory needs to make the engine start. Then they rely on the 90% of the settings in the base file for their final tune.
Choose your supplier with at least the same amount (or more) of care that you choose your standalone system.
BTW – from his various posts I can tell that Raceboy knows his theory and can fabricate what he needs – that puts him in the .01% category of 944 owners that can make their own major mods and successfully tune them – don’t assume that many others are capable of the same achievements!