Tom M'Guinn

Anyone know of a good place to get R12 freon? I'd rather not take my chances with random ebay sellers if possible. I'm certified, and understand it is no longer manufactured. Just looking for a reputable place with rust-free cans. Thanks.

nize

if you find some for cheap, let me know. i need to replace a leaking pipe in my a/c unit soon and would love to save some money on r12.

Zackb911

ebay...

Matt H

Tom, Mexico and Canada. Should be fairly easy to find in Cali, go ask some auto repair businesses. Since you are certified there should be no problem. The only one I foresee is having to buy 30 gallon cylinders since auto repair shops dont often have cans.
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tommo951

why not just convert to R49 it is compatible with your system as you will know as a certified engineer

nize

from what i have heard, r49 does not get as cold as r12.

Tom M'Guinn

Not an engineer -- just a certified schmoe with a $15 certificate from www.imaca.org

I'm planning to repace it with 134a and Griffiths equipment when I put in the new motor (someday real soon....), but in the meatime thought I'd pump a few cans of freon in.

nize

134a conversion definitely will not get as cold as stock setup with r12, maybe only about 50 to 60 percent cold. to do a proper conversion you have to replace the evaporator as well as the condensor and not just all the valves/seals. the cost of these parts (if they're even available for this car) makes it cost-prohibitive to convert to 134a.

reason i know this is because when i found my a/c pipe (compressor to evaporator) was leaking, i did a whole bunch of research on the 944 a/c system, conversion, etc. etc.

if you want cold a/c the best (and cheapest) way is to stay with the stock setup, fix the leak and try to find cheap r12.

Tom M'Guinn

I agree the stock system is darn good on the 944, when not leaking. Way way better than my old '85 911. But, 134a can be made to work well.

Check out: www.griffiths.com and www.griffiths.com/porsche/ac/ice/mrice1.htm

"cost-prohibitive" is all relative I guess, but the parts are out there to get the 944 meat-locker cold on 134a.

tt9714

Just in case you were thinking of crossing the border to get R-12...

http://www.activetraveldirectory.com...9708freon.html

Crazy Eddie

Amazing read ......
I spent over 300 dollars to recharge my bmw 325is w/ r12
That's when I decided to sell that money pit !!!
Ed

tommo951

There is no chemical reason why R49 will not get as cold as R12. R49 is used on a lot of vehicles as a stock fill e.g Jeep.
R134a has a completely different make up, requires a replacement synthetic oil fill so total evacuation of all oil in system as well as gas vacuum evacuation is essential. As described earlier you will also need a new condensor as well as possibly new high line hoses (different fill valve)
The properties of R134a are such that you will probably need a recharge every 18-24 months to maintain full effectiveness of the refrigerent (more hydroscopic than R12 or R49)
The reason a lot of people do not get full effectivenes out of R49 is they tend to just top up R12 systems with R49. This will not work you will need to evacuate and deep vacuum the system for at least an hour before refilling. If the recharge is done properly there will be no problems at all.
Lets put it this way A/C works in exactly the same principal as your home refrigerator (heat exchange). Refrigerators are now all filled with R134a or similar non ozone depleting refrigerants and nobody complains they do not keep you food cold do they.
The same goes for your cars A/C system

Matt H

A refrigerator is not a good example in this case as newer ones are designed for R134 (or derivative). In fact in industrial use, flammable (propane for instance) refrigerants are still approved for use.
You dont HAVE to replace the condensor but because of its design R134 conversion in 944s suck ***. It is not a large enough condensor for nor does it have enough airflow over it. You also dont have to replace the lines but again, because of the design you will need top offs every 18 months or less (usually every season). R134 is a higher pressure system than R12. There are adaptors available for the charge ports.

I am with you however, the R134 conversions are crap.
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tommo951

Matt,
You know your stuff!! The larger suppliers in UK will not sell the adaptors for the ports, we can get them from Germany or France but its a PITA. Are they still allowing propane fridges in US? They outlawed them for use in UK a few years ago. The only exception is for use in caravans (trailers)
Just to change the subject I read last week of a car breaker who was fined £50000 after being caught discharging vehicle A/C systems to atmosphere. They are really starting to get tight in UK.
I am a little surprised that the US has taken such a dim view of R12 after all the US government is totally adverse to signing up to the Kyoto Agreement on HC production and ozone depletion.
Or is it hit the small guy first?? Same as UK!

RPG951S

Canada has fazed out R12. By last year, there's no reliable source for R12, so the supply has dried up.
Canada, however, does not have a smuggling problem.
Why? Because we allow hydrocarbon based refridgerants (12A, Duracool etc..)
These work BETTER than R12 and cost the same or less than R134. (got my truck recharged for $50 bucks, including evac).
We've gotten over the hysterical fear of hydrocarbon refridgerants (no- it's not going to explode! It has a higher flashpoint than R134).

Sometimes governments are so stupid. Just legalized control hydrocarbon refridgerants. Bang- smuggling problem solved.