RogueM3

Hey guys,

I have been browsing a bit for 951s on different sites, but pretty much without any idea of what I am looking for.

I was hoping you guys could help me with regard to the best year of 951s in terms of modification potential. I understand the 89s had more power or atleast the "s" model did.

Its strange being the new guy on a board again as bimmerforums has been my home for the past year and a half and I feel i know everything there is to know about BMWS. Anything you guys can tell me would be great. Is there a single best tuner (Vitesse, Lindsey, or Powerhaus)? As those seem to be the big names I hear about.

If you guys could also let me know of the best upgrades for power and from which tuner that would be great.

here is a pic of my M3..thanks:


-Richard

ian

What are your goals for the car?

If we know those it is easier to give you recomendations.

CanyonBlaster

nice M3

FWIW -

86-88 non S have same stock hp/trq - approx 220
86 uses older style hub/wheel fitment (fuchs, etc..)
87+ CAN have ABS (I like ABS anyway), and can take late model porsche wheels.
88 is only year of "S" (247 HP) but 89 is same as "S" even though isn't named so, also better brakes I think

Definitely get ltd slip. I regret not doing so.
factory M030 means bigger sways - I added Weltmeisters - lotsa roll w/o!

good rule of thimb is buy a clean stock car if not planning on racing it/ buy a heavily modded car if you want more hp/trq as its alot cheaper to buy one with all the toys already (someone elses $$$ )

Last thing probably obvious - proper and religious maintenance (with paper trail) is CRITICAL on any 951. In short, buying the car is easy, repairs are a bit pricey, but not more so than an M3 so you likely know that. Get a PPI from a Porsche wrench!!

cheers!

NeedPorscheSpeed

Welcome to the wonderful world of Porsche, Rogue. That is a nice M3 you have, by the way.

I agree with Ian: give us some of your modification goals, and it will be much easier for us to give you targeted responses. I say "we," but I should say "they," as I am still quite a novice when it comes to tuning the 951.

Also, I want to point out that all 1989 951s had the 1988 "Limited Production" Turbo S goodies: M030 sport suspension, 247 HP vs. 217 HP (1986-88 951), 928S4 Big brakes, hardened 1st and 2nd gears, transmission cooler, LSD, etc.

With that said, if you want to do some major modifications, I would not do it to a 1988 951S or a 1989 951. Why? Well, in addition to the fact that I like to see these special limiited edition models inspired by the Turbo Cup race car remain in their factory condition, there is also a premium that is to be paid in order to acquire one of the late model 951s. In addition to that premium, if heavy mods are in order, many of the factory goodies would be removed anyway, which would negate the premium paid for the car in the first place.

I almost went down the modification path myself, until I found Ian's wonderful creation that he had for sale recently. (I am picking it up this weekend! Woo hoo!) If I had not bought Ian's (who posted above), I would have bought a stock 1986 or 1987 Turbo. Why? The price for which they can be obtained is less than that of the 1988s (standard), and, of course, the S model and 1989 (some call it an S, as well, because it is virtually the same car). Between a 1986 and a 1987, I would recommend a 1987, as Porsche worked out a few bugs and changed the wheel offsets, making it easier for wheel and brake upgrades.

Remember, I am a novice in the area of 951 modification, but I hope this has helped.

hosrom_951

This link should be helpful:

http://www.connact.com/~kgross/FAQ/944faq.html

RogueM3

THanks for the heads up about wheel offsets offerred on 87+ models. This certainly makes me disinterested in 86 models as I am a strong believer that wheels totally transform the exterior of a car along with a suspension drop.

I really am not sure what kind of power I am looking for. In comparison to the mods available for my car the the mods for the 951 provide crazy boosts in power.

I currently have probably somewhere near 215-220 rwhp in a car that weighs 3200 lbs with me in it. I think I remember the 951 being close in weight to the m3, so I think with 350rwhp in a 951 would feel beyond impressive.

I would want the car to be reliable though, so this would be done right..i wouldnt want to up the boost and throw the dice in terms of reliabilty.

With regard to certain suspension packages designated to certain years, I would most likely be changing to LEDA coilovers with bigger sways front and rear so that is something of a non-issue.

If you guys could help me out with parts or a package deal that would achieve 350rwhp I would be very thankful. Is 350 crazy or am I shooting too high?

If I am too far off just let me know what kind of power is achievable while maintaining some sort of reliabilty.

THanks again.

-Richard

RogueM3

Thanks for the link..I have read a little over at Clarke's garage and this link looks really informative as well.

-Richard

jsonnen

A Vitesse stage 2 should put you exactly where you want to be, alot of us are between 270-300 rwhp for less than 2K dollars!!! These cars are the performance bargain of the century IMHO and with 2 grand in mods will walk away from a brand new 333hp M3, a lightly modded 951 puts out close to a 100lb-ft more torque than a new M3!!!!!! Boost baby........

RogueM3

THats why I first came to the Porsche boards..as I had heard 951s can be monsters with lots of money and a threat to most cars on the road with very little work and money.

I read a post recently here where someone was shooting for 300rwhp for under $2500 and everyone seemed to agree it could be done but there would be a need for an upgraded turbo.

In all actuality I would probably upgrade slowly just to be able to appreciate the upgrades slowly as opposed to all at once. I know it isnt the most economical path, but its more fun.

How are the 951 brakes? I see quite a few people have the "big reds"..are these necessary when the power is upped over 300rwhp?

So i guess i would be shooting for 300rwhp at first only to be upped to 350rwhp later on after the addition of wheels and suspension.

One last thing, is Lindsey Racing the best for 951 tuning? If you can let me know what you did to reach 285-300rwhp I would be thankful.

It seems good condition 87 951s go for upwards of 15-18k and with a budget of 20k..300rwhp is easily accessible? What kind of maintenance costs would be associated yearly with an 80k mile 951?

-Richard

CPTdooberhead

Yes, Vitesse stage 2 is the way to go imo...thats what I have... OR, just get their turbo, and go stand alone (Link 2...). 350 at the wheels isnt hard to get. Ask me how i know
Nice M3-
Good luck
-Randy

jsonnen

The brakes on our cars are Brembo four-pots more than enough brake for most but the "big red" upgrade is sweet. As to first mods , I went with a Tial 46mm wastegate-Evo diverter valve-Guru 18 psi chips w 3 bar FPR and a reliaboost MBC- Bursch testpipe- new vac lines and voila..... roughly 275 rwhp for less than 2k!

Also Lindsey racing is a very reputable tuner along with Vitesse racing, another good tuner is Speed Force Racing as well but since your on the east coast I'd go with Vitesse or Lindsey, you can't go wrong with either tuner......welcome to the world of 951's where a lightly modded 17 year old car can run with most of the supercar big dogs.

Mikeaagesen

You should be able to find a nice example for way cheaper. prices that I have seen are all over the boards. IMO, you should be able to find a great car with lots of main. records for under 13k.

Epic2112

Umm, not to side track here, but I figure it's worth a try. Why is it that when I start my M3 I have to rev it a little bit to get the lights on the dash to go out? The car has a new alternator, though the problem existed with the old one too.

Skip Wolfe

I agree with NeedPorscheSpeed - don't waste your money getting an S if you plan on modding it, since you will replace almost all of the S parts when modding it. I would go with an '87-88 non-S. LSD is a must and ABS is nice if you can get it. If you are going to be tracking the car a lot, its worth getting one that is already setup for the track since you will get all the goodies at a minimal cost, and DE cars are usually very well taken care of.

I agree with others that Vitesse has probably the best plug and play kits for getting to the 350 hp mark. While Lindsey has probably the broadest product line, I would still recommend the Vitesse package – very well thought out and engineered and John of Vitesse has a great reputation for above and beyond customer service. As far as who is the best tuner - as far as engine goes it hand down Jon Milledge. Jon is by far the best engine builder for the 951 out there - but he isn't cheap.

Are you looking to track the car or is this to be a street car? The Leda's are probably overkill on a street car. With that said, you can't go wrong with the Leda package. I have a buddy with the full monty and it is a work of art. Try Racers Edge as he is the resident Leda guru and will be able to steer you in the right direction. If this is a track car make sure you look into going with an aftermarket control arm such as a the Charlie Arms that Paragon Products among other sell.

Brakes...again if this is a street car the stock brakes are more than adequate. The 4 piston Brembos are still better than 95% of the brakes that come on new cars today. If you are going to track the car then go with a more aggressive pad - Hawk Blues are my current favorite - and the 33/5 proportioning valve from the 928 series - again sold by Paragon Products.

Finally, I think everyone would agree that Paragon Products is by far an away the best stock/performance parts suppliers around. Great prices and even better customer service.

BTW, nice looking M3. I always loved the E36 M3’s. Dig the wheels too. I went with Fikse FM10’s for the track, which are pretty similar.

Some useful links:
http://www.jmengines.com/index.htm
http://www.vitesseracing.com/
http://www.lindseyracing.com/
http://www.paragon-products.com/
http://www.speedforceracing.com/ - best exhaust systems for the 951
http://www.gururacing.net/ - some of best chips for the 951 if you decide to not go with the whole Vitesse package right away.

Good luck.

v944god

Richard your only a couple towns away from me.

Maybee we can meet up sometime.

Also, I doubt a tuner kit can push 350 right out the box especially w/o heavy tuning, and high boost. Alot of tuners only recommend 15psi out of the box, with 15 psi you might be around the - +300 mark. But your also going to need some other goodies (fpr, wg, injectors, etc..)