Is this a Turbo or Turbo S?
06-13-2004, 03:02 AM
#1
Track Day
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Is this a Turbo or Turbo S?
Hey all, I'm not a newbie to forums, but I am a newbie to the Rennlist forums. I am currently looking to purchase my coworker's 1988 951 but I can't tell if it's a Turbo S model or not.
The owner claims that it is a Turbo S because:
1. The previous owner said it is.
2. His mechanic (Porsche specialist) looked at the Turbo and said that it has the bigger turbo from the S.
3. It has the 4 piston brakes from the 928.
4. The VIN number includes the number 150 which is specific to the Turbo S..(although I heard this isn't specific to the S???)
However, I think it may not be because I looked at the option codes and it doesn't have the M030 suspension or ABS. It originally came with phone dial wheels too (I thought Turbo S models came with Design 90's). It does have an LSD though.
Do you think it is a Turbo S? Or maybe a Turbo that the original owner upgraded to S spec? Finally, would it be worth less if it wasn't a Turbo S? FYI he's asking $9000. It has 150K miles on it but 30K on the fully rebuilt engine. He also replaced everything (suspension, clutch, etc.) all new within the last 2 years except the exhaust and Turbo in the 8 yrs he owned it. He's including the original wheels, a cat bypass pipe, and Autothority chip.
Here's the car:
Thanks for your help!
Steve
The owner claims that it is a Turbo S because:
1. The previous owner said it is.
2. His mechanic (Porsche specialist) looked at the Turbo and said that it has the bigger turbo from the S.
3. It has the 4 piston brakes from the 928.
4. The VIN number includes the number 150 which is specific to the Turbo S..(although I heard this isn't specific to the S???)
However, I think it may not be because I looked at the option codes and it doesn't have the M030 suspension or ABS. It originally came with phone dial wheels too (I thought Turbo S models came with Design 90's). It does have an LSD though.
Do you think it is a Turbo S? Or maybe a Turbo that the original owner upgraded to S spec? Finally, would it be worth less if it wasn't a Turbo S? FYI he's asking $9000. It has 150K miles on it but 30K on the fully rebuilt engine. He also replaced everything (suspension, clutch, etc.) all new within the last 2 years except the exhaust and Turbo in the 8 yrs he owned it. He's including the original wheels, a cat bypass pipe, and Autothority chip.
Here's the car:
Thanks for your help!
Steve
06-13-2004, 03:16 AM
#3
Nordschleife Master
From what ive read the Turbo S only came in the color Silver Rose Metallic, though i have read a number of conflicting things about this being true or not.
One way to tell is to check the engine number, it should start with a 47 instead of a 45. This number can be located when looking down at the exhaust manifold from the right side of the car, look down to the rear to the cylinder closest to the firewall. Also at this same spot you can find the engine type number, Turbo S cars should have M44/52, i think the regular turbo cars have M44/51.
One way to tell is to check the engine number, it should start with a 47 instead of a 45. This number can be located when looking down at the exhaust manifold from the right side of the car, look down to the rear to the cylinder closest to the firewall. Also at this same spot you can find the engine type number, Turbo S cars should have M44/52, i think the regular turbo cars have M44/51.
06-13-2004, 03:19 AM
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Fyi if you do get the car dont put in the autothority chips get some guru racing ones. And if it doesnt have M030 I would doubt it is an S. Nice looking car though.
06-13-2004, 12:01 PM
#6
Nordschleife Master
A: what is the full VIN?
B: the first few Turbo S cars were Silver Roses with red plaid interior. There were many more official 1988 turbo S cars made with different colour combos.
C: It is possible to mount the #8 hotside (turbo S) in place of the earlier #6 (non-S) so that does not automatically make it a real turbo S.
D: Since ABS was standard on all 951's from 87 onwards, it might not appear on the options list!!!!!
E: It's possible that it is an 88-non S with upgraded brakes and hotside.
Look for the M44/52 engine code! If you find M44/51 - it's NOT an S.
F: Also, the CHASSIS number, should look something like this:
1986 turbo 95GN150001
1987 turbo 95HN150001
1988 turbo 95JN150001
1988 turbo S 97JN150001
1989 turbo 95KN150001
B: the first few Turbo S cars were Silver Roses with red plaid interior. There were many more official 1988 turbo S cars made with different colour combos.
C: It is possible to mount the #8 hotside (turbo S) in place of the earlier #6 (non-S) so that does not automatically make it a real turbo S.
D: Since ABS was standard on all 951's from 87 onwards, it might not appear on the options list!!!!!
E: It's possible that it is an 88-non S with upgraded brakes and hotside.
Look for the M44/52 engine code! If you find M44/51 - it's NOT an S.
F: Also, the CHASSIS number, should look something like this:
1986 turbo 95GN150001
1987 turbo 95HN150001
1988 turbo 95JN150001
1988 turbo S 97JN150001
1989 turbo 95KN150001
06-13-2004, 12:07 PM
#7
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Correct, from 1988~1991 all 944 turbos came with the bigger 26/7 turbocharger and a different wastegate. The turbo S however, came in silver rose metallic with burgundy interior (reddish) and with ABS. If none of these three apply, then its a standard 88 'updated' turbo.
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06-13-2004, 12:23 PM
#8
Nordschleife Master
Color of the car is not an indicator as to whether it is an S - somewhere around the middle of the 1988 run other colors were produced as I have a black one. The block stamped M44/52 would mean it was an S block but if the engine has been rebuilt who knows what block was used.
As far as the VIN number there isn't a magic number like 150 in it and my VIN doesn't have 150 in it. I seem to recall someone posted a list of all the '88 S VINs on the web somewhere so you may be able to dig that up.
This lack of ABS though is very strange. I suppose someone could have pulled the ABS off but I doubt they would pull all the brake lines too and all Ses came with ABS.
There are of course other differences between the Turbo and S but with all the changes that could have been done over the years it might be hard to tell or you have to take things apart, like the transaxle since the S had an upgraded one.
As far as the VIN number there isn't a magic number like 150 in it and my VIN doesn't have 150 in it. I seem to recall someone posted a list of all the '88 S VINs on the web somewhere so you may be able to dig that up.
This lack of ABS though is very strange. I suppose someone could have pulled the ABS off but I doubt they would pull all the brake lines too and all Ses came with ABS.
There are of course other differences between the Turbo and S but with all the changes that could have been done over the years it might be hard to tell or you have to take things apart, like the transaxle since the S had an upgraded one.
06-13-2004, 12:45 PM
#9
The 1988 944 turbo S was initially built with only the Silver Rose color. Half way through the model year they expanded color and option choices as Ice shark stated. European S models got significantly different car than we did over her. In the United States, all of the original Turbo S cars came with ABS, M030, crazy plaid interior w/comfort seats, and the 26/8 turbo with 250hp.
The option package for the S models was 758. If it doesn't have it, it's not a turbo S.
The option package for the S models was 758. If it doesn't have it, it's not a turbo S.
06-13-2004, 12:47 PM
#10
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http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Pit/4786/
I used the above site to figure out that my car was a TorboS when I bought it. This is the most accurate site I have found about the TurboS.
I used the above site to figure out that my car was a TorboS when I bought it. This is the most accurate site I have found about the TurboS.
06-13-2004, 01:00 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
Originally posted by hosrom_951
Correct, from 1988~1991 all 944 turbos came with the bigger 26/7 turbocharger and a different wastegate. The turbo S however, came in silver rose metallic with burgundy interior (reddish) and with ABS. If none of these three apply, then its a standard 88 'updated' turbo.
Correct, from 1988~1991 all 944 turbos came with the bigger 26/7 turbocharger and a different wastegate. The turbo S however, came in silver rose metallic with burgundy interior (reddish) and with ABS. If none of these three apply, then its a standard 88 'updated' turbo.
The wastegate is the same
Not all were silver rose metallic
06-13-2004, 01:04 PM
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Track Day
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OK...sounds like it is NOT a Turbo S model. Should this make the car worth anything less?
The car does have driver and passenger airbags. I guess it may have ABS also since I only went by the option codes and if it was a standard item then it wouldn't be listed in the code list. I guess the best way for me to check if it's a Turbo S is with the engine block and chassis number.
The full VIN number is: WP0AA2952JN150658
Should Carfax show Turbo S in the heading?
Thanks again,
Steve
The car does have driver and passenger airbags. I guess it may have ABS also since I only went by the option codes and if it was a standard item then it wouldn't be listed in the code list. I guess the best way for me to check if it's a Turbo S is with the engine block and chassis number.
The full VIN number is: WP0AA2952JN150658
Should Carfax show Turbo S in the heading?
Thanks again,
Steve
06-13-2004, 01:17 PM
#13
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With the mentioned upgrades it sounds (and looks) like a car fully worth the $9k Turbo S or not.
I would look into the quality of the “fully rebuilt engine”. As you may have seen in prior posts paying a lot of money for a rebuild is unfortunately no guarantee for a quality job. At that mileage a leak-down of around 5% or less should be a good indicator for a quality job. Information on the head-gasket type used will also tell you how far you can push the boost.
Laust
I would look into the quality of the “fully rebuilt engine”. As you may have seen in prior posts paying a lot of money for a rebuild is unfortunately no guarantee for a quality job. At that mileage a leak-down of around 5% or less should be a good indicator for a quality job. Information on the head-gasket type used will also tell you how far you can push the boost.
Laust
06-13-2004, 01:34 PM
#14
Nordschleife Master
Check the engine code for sure on the block!! I thought all 88' Turbo S cars were that siliver rose in color, and porsche didn't start offering other colors until the MY89 years?
Originally posted by Techno Duck
From what ive read the Turbo S only came in the color Silver Rose Metallic, though i have read a number of conflicting things about this being true or not.
One way to tell is to check the engine number, it should start with a 47 instead of a 45. This number can be located when looking down at the exhaust manifold from the right side of the car, look down to the rear to the cylinder closest to the firewall. Also at this same spot you can find the engine type number, Turbo S cars should have M44/52, i think the regular turbo cars have M44/51.
From what ive read the Turbo S only came in the color Silver Rose Metallic, though i have read a number of conflicting things about this being true or not.
One way to tell is to check the engine number, it should start with a 47 instead of a 45. This number can be located when looking down at the exhaust manifold from the right side of the car, look down to the rear to the cylinder closest to the firewall. Also at this same spot you can find the engine type number, Turbo S cars should have M44/52, i think the regular turbo cars have M44/51.
06-13-2004, 01:36 PM
#15
Nordschleife Master
Guys, NOT ALL Turbo S cars are Silver Roses!!!!!!!!
WP0AA2952JN150658
Steve, the VIN indicates 100% that it is a USA spec, 1988 model year car, with driver's and pax airbags.
There is no way to tell from the VIN if it is a turbo-s, but you can tell from the VIN if it isn't one.
Look for the M44/52 engine code to see if it has a turbo-S engine!
Please refer to this page for more info:
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/P...od%20Breakdown
WP0AA2952JN150658
Steve, the VIN indicates 100% that it is a USA spec, 1988 model year car, with driver's and pax airbags.
There is no way to tell from the VIN if it is a turbo-s, but you can tell from the VIN if it isn't one.
Look for the M44/52 engine code to see if it has a turbo-S engine!
Please refer to this page for more info:
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/P...od%20Breakdown