Jeremy Himsel

I think copying someone else's chips is a bunch of bull****. Unethical if you ask me. Although I wouldn't put it past "some" tuners. Especially when that tuner wasn't the guru everyone thought he was and couldn't get it right the first time and has had umpteen revisions since the beginning. What if a tuner started his business on a set of stolen chips in the first place? If this is happening, I'm calling a foul here. Dousche bag type of stuff if you ask me. I can only think of two dirtbag vendors who would do this and one of them isn't in business anymore.

icat

Hummm... (He says as he tosses some fuel onto the fire)...
I wonder how many have copied Microsoft software or downloaded pirated music from the web....

Eyal 951

you guys are being rediculous. I'm seeing some slandor here. How about we dont get invloved in private affairs huh? How about not posting your private affairs either. I like you john, but I think you should have taken this up with the said vendor.
~Eyal

NZ951

Is that a hint that its Danno?

Tom M'Guinn

Copyright law generally protects software and firmware, so no need for a patent to prevent bootlegging. However, I often wonder if chip makers start with 100% new code, or if they start with the (copyrighted) factory chip and modify only the necessary parts.

Ski

Excellent point Tom. Eyal is correct too, offlist. Everyone has PM and most members have email on their profile.

PorscheDoc

Im not saying that i don't see whats wrong with it, point is that it is part of business whether you like it or not, it happens every day, and when it happens to you, all of a sudden your pissed off. Have you never copied a VCR tape or a CD or Software? How about copied a music tape? Don't say that you haven't, because i and everyone on here will call bull**** on you. I fully agree that it is unethical, and a poor practice of business, but unfortuently that is life, get a helmet. If you are offering a superior service for the same product, then you should have no problem with competition, i personally know that your name on rennlist is well respected, and i doubt it will kill your business. It is almost like this is an opportunity to rub another tuner's face and name in the dirt, and no matter what he did to you...how ethical is that? There is this little saying that goes "when someone slaps you in the face, turn the other cheek." How many thousands of 944/941/968's are there driving around in this country vrs how many tuners there are.

Chris Prack

Well FWIW I have compared quite a few chip sets over the years and have found most to almost completly mirror APE's chips.

This makes sense since they were the first guys on the block so to speak. Tuner's have been using their (APE) chips as a starting point forever. Happens all the time. Most of you would be surprised who the list includes.

Ahmet

What is this, you don't need to say this if that's where you're going to leave it.
Why don't you tell us?
Why don't you tell us?

I'm not against the posting of such information at all, isn't this why we have public boards like Rennlist, or is it supposed to be used only to praize others?
Ahmet

Chris Prack

Because it's not worth the grief for me or anyone else. The point is that tuner's "borrow" exsisting chip maps all the time and if this is a surprise to you then you are naive.

The internet (including Rennlist) is slam full of BS, smoke and mirrors. Mind you that does not include everyone here by any stretch but it certainly exists.

If you want a proper chip for YOUR car then to to a tuner and pay for a custom chip. Anything else is a compromise.

I am going to end this as I feel a general rant coming on and I have better things to do like drink beer and eat pizza...............

Ahmet

It's because of people like you who will say something but not name any names that a "tuner" can get such a great name in a short time, nobody posts complaints here before they see it from other people. It's absurd. The internet, and Rennlist IS full of BS, so why not do your part to clean it up some. People could be ordering from these tuners that you know sell **** this very minute because nobody will step up to the plate. I don't see how it makes sense. If you can't name who you're talking about, then don't tell us the mean bad tuners are out there...
Ahmet

PorscheDoc

mmmm pizza

Ahmet

There's nothing wrong with analyzing your competitors product. Ofcourse re-selling the same chip is a different issue than looking at what your competition is offering. I realize this, and that's not what this is about.
Ahmet

Pauerman

It's pretty ****ty when someone else steals your hard work and ultimately the time you've invested into a product. But adding to Tom's comment, I don't think anyone but Bosch can claim ownership to the code that runs our DME/KLR - no matter how modified the code is.

Bottom line - the business world is a cut throat environment. For some (supposedly here on the list,) the almighty dolllar holds a higher value than morals or ethics.

Chris Prack

Hey thanks for laying the blame on me. It's surprising that I am the cause of or at least contributing to the stupidity or the average Rennlister. It is hardly MY responsiblity (nor do I have the time) to "clean up" Rennlist or the internet. I already have a job.

There is a ton of crap that I read here all the time. Where would you like me to start? It's comical. I will give you a "for instance". There was a thread not too long ago that was several page's, over the course of a week or so. One of the list tuners posts and very thought out and concise explanation of the question at hand and was then saluted like a hero. So I googled the subject of the thread (mostly cause I doubt everyone) and I got about 12 pages or so of results. So I go through the pages and what do I find? A page submitted by a company off a website that our "hero" cut and pasted and called his own. Ain't he a genius? Smart guy. Buy my stuff, I'm impressive. I almost posted a link to the site, as I am sure you wish I had, to call him out.

The problem as I see it, from being in the modifying Porsche business way too long, is most people cannot pay for what they want. Everyone wants a deal. Everyone want's to do it themselves. No one wants to pay for anything and will shop the hell out of the internet to find a deal. Then their "deal" doesn't work out (surprise!) as expected and now were all unhappy. Ride big, pay big. Cut and dry.

I told you already. If you want an inexpensive generic chip why do you care where it came from? Right? Stop being lazy and do your own research, call a tuner on the phone and talk to them. Talk to customers that use their product. Get involved. Don't blame me because it's not my fault. Be responsible for your own actions and thoughts. No one forced you to read anything here or own a Porsche.