350rwhp mark
05-18-2004 | 03:58 PM
#46
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Chris, You seem a nice guy as well. I'm in for few beers 
VIR must be one of the tracks you guys go to, when I get a chance to go for a track event, I might contact you for few pointers...
You are correct, the KKK housings must be massaged to improve things..
VIR must be one of the tracks you guys go to, when I get a chance to go for a track event, I might contact you for few pointers...
You are correct, the KKK housings must be massaged to improve things..
05-18-2004 | 04:20 PM
#48
Chris/Others - IIRC, the dual ball bearing turbos are incredibly expensive to rebuild, is this an incorrect assumption?
I have a brand spanking new, never been put in the car T04E with KKK#8 replica and for what I am trying to accomplish I dont think it is going to be enough. I have been contemplating selling and going to a ture GT series turbo with a custom down pipe. Just trying to gain as many facts as possible.
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I have a brand spanking new, never been put in the car T04E with KKK#8 replica and for what I am trying to accomplish I dont think it is going to be enough. I have been contemplating selling and going to a ture GT series turbo with a custom down pipe. Just trying to gain as many facts as possible.
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05-18-2004 | 04:42 PM
#50
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From: State College, PA
Originally posted by v944god
Jason, the car is getting re-done by Promotion as we speak. No clue if it has an LSD, but its an 86.
I owned a pretty quick car before, and got bored within 2 months and sold the car. So I'm looking for more of a beast I can daily drive, and take to the autox events.
Jason, the car is getting re-done by Promotion as we speak. No clue if it has an LSD, but its an 86.
I owned a pretty quick car before, and got bored within 2 months and sold the car. So I'm looking for more of a beast I can daily drive, and take to the autox events.
05-18-2004 | 05:58 PM
#51
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“I thought it has always been said in here that the stock fuel pump is good to 350rwhp no problem. Injectors are just the limiting factor.”
The service manual claims a fuel pump flow (1 bar abs in manifold) of 850cc after 30 seconds. Convert this and you get about 190 lb/hr. 4 injectors at 37 lb/hr each is about 150 lb/hr. Add some manifold pressure and the pump capacity goes down, while the injector flow goes up. As a consequence the pump and the injectors essentially have the same flow limits. So my point here is if you need large injectors you also need larger fuel pump.
I tried out the injector worksheet from RC Engineering and it must be very conservative essentially claiming that four 37 lb/hr injectors only can support 215 crank HP (.63 bsfc, 100% duty cycle and 36 psi fuel pressure).
Laust
The service manual claims a fuel pump flow (1 bar abs in manifold) of 850cc after 30 seconds. Convert this and you get about 190 lb/hr. 4 injectors at 37 lb/hr each is about 150 lb/hr. Add some manifold pressure and the pump capacity goes down, while the injector flow goes up. As a consequence the pump and the injectors essentially have the same flow limits. So my point here is if you need large injectors you also need larger fuel pump.
I tried out the injector worksheet from RC Engineering and it must be very conservative essentially claiming that four 37 lb/hr injectors only can support 215 crank HP (.63 bsfc, 100% duty cycle and 36 psi fuel pressure).
Laust
05-18-2004 | 06:27 PM
#53
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From: NAS PAX River, by way of Orlando
Ok Laust, thanks for the info. Yea, using a .63 bsfc is pretty conservative.
"I am still amazed that people find it hard to believe a totally stock 89 car with a LBE, test pipe and custom DME chip can make 300 rwhp."
At what boost levels?
Also, at 3K+ for a turbo, I have to say mine would be a VATN turbo.
"I am still amazed that people find it hard to believe a totally stock 89 car with a LBE, test pipe and custom DME chip can make 300 rwhp."
At what boost levels?
Also, at 3K+ for a turbo, I have to say mine would be a VATN turbo.
05-18-2004 | 06:38 PM
#54
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From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Originally posted by Chris Prack
The stock fuel pump deliver's plenty of fuel. The car that made the 450 rwhp chart is running on a stock pump, fuel rail, dampener and lines.
Interestingly enough it also is using a stock untouched intake and exhaust manifolds. The crossover is stock with the exception that we had to extend it slightly and change the flange at the turbine.
A lot of what gets said and is believed in my opinion is a bunch of smoke and mirrors. I am still amazed that people find it hard to believe a totally stock 89 car with a LBE, test pipe and custom DME chip can make 300 rwhp. The car that made 450 rwhp is a 2.54 liter engine running on Motec with a Garrett fully ball bearing turbo and big injectors, a Lindsey intercooler and racegate, etc.
The stock fuel pump deliver's plenty of fuel. The car that made the 450 rwhp chart is running on a stock pump, fuel rail, dampener and lines.
Interestingly enough it also is using a stock untouched intake and exhaust manifolds. The crossover is stock with the exception that we had to extend it slightly and change the flange at the turbine.
A lot of what gets said and is believed in my opinion is a bunch of smoke and mirrors. I am still amazed that people find it hard to believe a totally stock 89 car with a LBE, test pipe and custom DME chip can make 300 rwhp. The car that made 450 rwhp is a 2.54 liter engine running on Motec with a Garrett fully ball bearing turbo and big injectors, a Lindsey intercooler and racegate, etc.
Originally posted by Chris Prack
Some folks think that 350 rwhp is difficult to get. Am I wrong here? It really was very easy. The turbo's that we use are very expensive. In the 3-3.5k range but they make the power. Plain and simple. If you are trying to use some triple k hybrid your going to have trouble making that kind of power. The turbo's available today are far superior to the 30 year old KKK designs from the seventies.
Some folks think that 350 rwhp is difficult to get. Am I wrong here? It really was very easy. The turbo's that we use are very expensive. In the 3-3.5k range but they make the power. Plain and simple. If you are trying to use some triple k hybrid your going to have trouble making that kind of power. The turbo's available today are far superior to the 30 year old KKK designs from the seventies.
05-18-2004 | 06:45 PM
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From: NAS PAX River, by way of Orlando
"A cheap Garrett T04E with a KKK hot housing can do the same thing, which is what I'm using."
Has the guantlet been dropped??
Has the guantlet been dropped??
05-18-2004 | 06:52 PM
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From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Originally posted by Chris Prack
It's something new. Who else has made 450 rwhp out of a 2.5 liter engine? Hell who has made 360 rwhp out of a worn out engine with stock parts. We will throw out the possibility of aftermarket injectors since damn near everyone already has them anyway. Fuel pressure regulator as well for that matter.
It's something new. Who else has made 450 rwhp out of a 2.5 liter engine? Hell who has made 360 rwhp out of a worn out engine with stock parts. We will throw out the possibility of aftermarket injectors since damn near everyone already has them anyway. Fuel pressure regulator as well for that matter.
.
