Deltagate vs. Tial
04-06-2004, 04:39 PM
#1
Race Car
Thread Starter
Deltagate vs. Tial
I see a lot of people running Tials here, is it a clearly better wastegate than the Deltagate?
What, typically, is the cost difference between the two?
I thought Danno was selling Deltagates, but they aren't on his website, so where would I get one (direct from Turbonetics)?
And I still don't understand the spring rate for the wastegate, how do you calculate what size you need?
TIA
What, typically, is the cost difference between the two?
I thought Danno was selling Deltagates, but they aren't on his website, so where would I get one (direct from Turbonetics)?
And I still don't understand the spring rate for the wastegate, how do you calculate what size you need?
TIA
04-06-2004, 04:47 PM
#2
Race Director
Stermy, the WG spring rate is usualy given in bar, or a colour at times that represents a certain bar. The spring will determine the minimum level of boost you can run, if you want no less than 1.0 bar (14.5psi) then get that spring and a controller will allow you to produce more boost, but not less.
04-06-2004, 04:49 PM
#3
Race Director
the spring rate corelates to the boost level. Whatever boost level you want to run will dictate what size spring you need to buy.
A 1 bar spring will allow you to run 14.7psi and up...
A .65 bar spring will allow .65bar and up...
You typically want to run a spring close to the boost level you are running, but If you want to be able to dial in 10psi you cant be running a 1 bar wastegate spring.
Tials seem to have a great rep around here, Ive heard ok things about the deltagates. Never a bad thing about a Tial, so that was good enough for me (35mm w/ SFR adapters)
A 1 bar spring will allow you to run 14.7psi and up...
A .65 bar spring will allow .65bar and up...
You typically want to run a spring close to the boost level you are running, but If you want to be able to dial in 10psi you cant be running a 1 bar wastegate spring.
Tials seem to have a great rep around here, Ive heard ok things about the deltagates. Never a bad thing about a Tial, so that was good enough for me (35mm w/ SFR adapters)
04-06-2004, 04:52 PM
#5
Race Director
The Tial when you see it, looks like a work of art, seriously good build quality. Anyone know how they can charge the same money for a BOV? Mad, but they look great too. I am going to bin my Lindsey one for a Tial soon, and weld it to the IC pipe.
04-06-2004, 04:59 PM
#6
My Delta gate failed on me at a drivers event resulting in several overboost situations before I knew what was going on. At first I thought it was the line going to the wastegate.
Nope... the problem was the internal seal in the wastegate valve itself. It looks like when the valve opened it took the seal up with it (not suppose to do that). With out the valve seal the pressure leaked and did not allow thevalve to re-open... not good. The Delta gate lasted about 1.5 years. The bigger Valve RaceGate has the same internals.
The Teal is much heavier.
The NewGen is something I'm beginning to like (except the price) anyone have experience with this.
SAMGRANT 951... Is SHE your daily driver?
Nope... the problem was the internal seal in the wastegate valve itself. It looks like when the valve opened it took the seal up with it (not suppose to do that). With out the valve seal the pressure leaked and did not allow thevalve to re-open... not good. The Delta gate lasted about 1.5 years. The bigger Valve RaceGate has the same internals.
The Teal is much heavier.
The NewGen is something I'm beginning to like (except the price) anyone have experience with this.
SAMGRANT 951... Is SHE your daily driver?
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04-06-2004, 05:44 PM
#8
Race Director
Another idea is a spring rate at the max boost you want to run. And let the WG only ever control coost. No risk of spikes etc. And use your right foot to moderate boost...
04-06-2004, 07:36 PM
#9
Instructor
In my opinion the Deltagate is a piece of junk compared to either the stock wg or a Tial.
My first Deltagate had a sticking valve right of the box. They sent me another, which I just replaced after about 15 track days. This time, the valve stem seal was shot.
I also found that its flanges had warped, which caused repeated gasket leaks.
To add insult, in the process of dismantling it, one of the bolts snapped off.
Deltagates may survive for a relatively stock street car, but they won't hold up under additional hp on the track.
Get the Tial - the difference in price is negligible, if any. You'll either need to purchase adaptor plates to mate up to your stock exhaust flanges, or if you don't plan on going back to the stock wg, weld the Tial-style flanges (same as the Deltagate, btw) to the face of the stock flanges.
There are plenty of places that sell either of these for under $250.
However, if you're using the stock boost control, then I would stick with the stock wg. The motivation for the deltagate or tial is that they are dual-port wg's, that allow very precise control using manual or electronic boost controllers. Their spring rate is selected for the minimum opening pressure. This is countered by adding opposing pressure to the "second" port via a controller, which therefore regulates boost ABOVE the spring rate. If you have no mechanism to adjust boost, then the stock wg is fine.
Jon.
My first Deltagate had a sticking valve right of the box. They sent me another, which I just replaced after about 15 track days. This time, the valve stem seal was shot.
I also found that its flanges had warped, which caused repeated gasket leaks.
To add insult, in the process of dismantling it, one of the bolts snapped off.
Deltagates may survive for a relatively stock street car, but they won't hold up under additional hp on the track.
Get the Tial - the difference in price is negligible, if any. You'll either need to purchase adaptor plates to mate up to your stock exhaust flanges, or if you don't plan on going back to the stock wg, weld the Tial-style flanges (same as the Deltagate, btw) to the face of the stock flanges.
There are plenty of places that sell either of these for under $250.
However, if you're using the stock boost control, then I would stick with the stock wg. The motivation for the deltagate or tial is that they are dual-port wg's, that allow very precise control using manual or electronic boost controllers. Their spring rate is selected for the minimum opening pressure. This is countered by adding opposing pressure to the "second" port via a controller, which therefore regulates boost ABOVE the spring rate. If you have no mechanism to adjust boost, then the stock wg is fine.
Jon.
04-06-2004, 07:48 PM
#10
lol...sl951...sam has covered this several times before...i don't know if she's his daily driver (real or imagined 
) but she's on the web: Perfect Paz
) but she's on the web: Perfect Paz
04-06-2004, 11:14 PM
#14
Race Director
Falls into the rubbish bin for the money. I know people may have had some success, but cant be compared to the build quality of a new tial. A guy had one here believe it or not, and his was less than satisfactory for his application. May be a good alt to a stock one for 15-18psi though?
04-07-2004, 01:13 AM
#15
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I have a junk Deltagate sitting here, same deal as sl951 said. Bottom stem seal blown out. Oddly enough, it came from a car with boost control problems and a blown headgasket. I don't like the design personally.