HELP - AVC-R Setup Problem
03-29-2004, 11:48 PM
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HELP - AVC-R Setup Problem
I installed an APEXi AVC-R boost controller into my track-only car and have tried to adjust it through two events without success.
First, electrical connections have been rechecked and all controller functions appear to work properly. I set boost at 1.2 (17 PSI) and 50% duty cycle. The unit went into learn mode with all astericks appearing in duty cycle. When I return from a session maximum boost will show to have been around 1.5 (22 PSI boost). I see high boost in lower gears but fourth seems to be OK.
F / B Speed was set to 3 3 3 3 3. Yesterday I started adjusting F / B speed to 5 5 5 3 3 but didn't really see if it helped. Laguna Seca is such a tight course that there is little time to concentrate on anything other than the track.
All help is greatly appreciated.
Claus Groth
'86 951 daily driver
'86 951 future track star
First, electrical connections have been rechecked and all controller functions appear to work properly. I set boost at 1.2 (17 PSI) and 50% duty cycle. The unit went into learn mode with all astericks appearing in duty cycle. When I return from a session maximum boost will show to have been around 1.5 (22 PSI boost). I see high boost in lower gears but fourth seems to be OK.
F / B Speed was set to 3 3 3 3 3. Yesterday I started adjusting F / B speed to 5 5 5 3 3 but didn't really see if it helped. Laguna Seca is such a tight course that there is little time to concentrate on anything other than the track.
All help is greatly appreciated.
Claus Groth
'86 951 daily driver
'86 951 future track star
03-30-2004, 12:07 AM
#2
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Claus, I had the same experience with the Apexi. I am sure more patience or knowledge would have helped, but life is too short, so I pulled it out an re-installed my Profec B. Where are you supposed to let this thing learn the boost curve in 4th or 5th at 6000rpm? Wish I could be of more help.
03-30-2004, 12:09 AM
#3
Three Wheelin'
Claus, how did you get it into learn mode? Did it go automatically? I believe you can set duty cycle manually for the low gears where you are overboosting. Do you see the boost oscillate in the low gears? If not, the fb speed will not be a factor.
PS, thanks again for the mirror switch. I'm actually going to use it to hook up the optional injector duty cycle feature on the AVC-R.
PS, thanks again for the mirror switch. I'm actually going to use it to hook up the optional injector duty cycle feature on the AVC-R.
03-30-2004, 12:16 AM
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Claus,
You've been such a great help to a lot of people, I hope something I have can finally help you.
Here is the wiring diagram on my car Add-ons including the AVC-R.
I have some other items that may help. let me look..
You've been such a great help to a lot of people, I hope something I have can finally help you.
Here is the wiring diagram on my car Add-ons including the AVC-R.
I have some other items that may help. let me look..
03-30-2004, 12:21 AM
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Here's something Rage2 posted about setup.
The Apex-i isn't hard to set up, it's the manual that's written really poorly. Totally useless manual IMO. A quick lesson in getting the Apex-i set up :
1. Set gear judge, drive in 5 gears, any speed, AVR-R will know what gear you're in based on speed vs rpm.
2. Choose Program A or B. Set target boost level (say, 1.00kg/cm3)
3. Start at a low duty, say, 50%.
4. Set to monitor the boost, then do a run in 3rd gear to redline (you'd want a highway)
5. If boost too high, lower duty. If boost too low, raise duty. Repeat step 4.
Once the target boost is close enough, the AVC-R will then set a duty curve automatically to get to your target boost level. It'll keep learning as you drive.
Final step, if you're not getting enough boost in 1st and 2nd, you can use the start duty for the individual gears and raise the initial start duty cycle to get boost to shoot up quicker, and hit your desired boost. It's a dangerous feature IMO, cause you'll overboost in those gears going uphill.
Of course, this is if you want to get the most out of the boost controller (get to max boost quicker without overboosting). You can use it in what I call "dummy mode" where you set a flat duty cycle and just get the same boost level at all rpm's (if your turbo can provide) with a small sacrifice in turbo response. That takes about 10 seconds to setup.
Hope this helps.
--------------------
rage2
1. Set gear judge, drive in 5 gears, any speed, AVR-R will know what gear you're in based on speed vs rpm.
2. Choose Program A or B. Set target boost level (say, 1.00kg/cm3)
3. Start at a low duty, say, 50%.
4. Set to monitor the boost, then do a run in 3rd gear to redline (you'd want a highway)
5. If boost too high, lower duty. If boost too low, raise duty. Repeat step 4.
Once the target boost is close enough, the AVC-R will then set a duty curve automatically to get to your target boost level. It'll keep learning as you drive.
Final step, if you're not getting enough boost in 1st and 2nd, you can use the start duty for the individual gears and raise the initial start duty cycle to get boost to shoot up quicker, and hit your desired boost. It's a dangerous feature IMO, cause you'll overboost in those gears going uphill.
Of course, this is if you want to get the most out of the boost controller (get to max boost quicker without overboosting). You can use it in what I call "dummy mode" where you set a flat duty cycle and just get the same boost level at all rpm's (if your turbo can provide) with a small sacrifice in turbo response. That takes about 10 seconds to setup.
Hope this helps.
--------------------
rage2
03-30-2004, 12:36 AM
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Here are the Apexi settings for my car.
Car Select: 4 8 -> (Points to 2 oclock)
FB speed: 3 3 3 3 3
Learn Gear: X X X X X (should be 0 0 0 0 0 to learn gears)
Start Duty: +3% +2% -5% -9% -12%
NE: 2500 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000 6500
Gear Judge: 135 75 50 35 30
Sensor Select: Relative 1
The last setting you have to realise I have a weak wastegate...
Boost: 1.2
Dudy: 90%
Nets me a pretty solid 16psi.
Your boost may vary...
Car Select: 4 8 -> (Points to 2 oclock)
FB speed: 3 3 3 3 3
Learn Gear: X X X X X (should be 0 0 0 0 0 to learn gears)
Start Duty: +3% +2% -5% -9% -12%
NE: 2500 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000 6500
Gear Judge: 135 75 50 35 30
Sensor Select: Relative 1
The last setting you have to realise I have a weak wastegate...
Boost: 1.2
Dudy: 90%
Nets me a pretty solid 16psi.
Your boost may vary...
Last edited by DanD; 03-30-2004 at 01:40 AM.
03-30-2004, 12:40 AM
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Originally posted by Tom M'Guinn
Where are you supposed to let this thing learn the boost curve in 4th or 5th at 6000rpm?
Where are you supposed to let this thing learn the boost curve in 4th or 5th at 6000rpm?
Claus
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03-30-2004, 12:41 AM
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Originally posted by Mike Murcia
Claus, how did you get it into learn mode? Did it go automatically? I believe you can set duty cycle manually for the low gears where you are overboosting. Do you see the boost oscillate in the low gears? If not, the fb speed will not be a factor.
PS, thanks again for the mirror switch. I'm actually going to use it to hook up the optional injector duty cycle feature on the AVC-R.
Claus, how did you get it into learn mode? Did it go automatically? I believe you can set duty cycle manually for the low gears where you are overboosting. Do you see the boost oscillate in the low gears? If not, the fb speed will not be a factor.
PS, thanks again for the mirror switch. I'm actually going to use it to hook up the optional injector duty cycle feature on the AVC-R.
I think it you put XXX in the learn Gear. It will begin learning.
If you can get the injector duty cycle to work Please Post! I haven't heard of anyone getting it to work. (even Danno).
03-30-2004, 12:44 AM
#9
Three Wheelin'
Originally posted by DanD
Mike,
If you can get the injector duty cycle to work Please Post! I haven't heard of anyone getting it to work. (even Danno).
Mike,
If you can get the injector duty cycle to work Please Post! I haven't heard of anyone getting it to work. (even Danno).
If I get it, does it mean I'm the new Guru???
03-30-2004, 12:50 AM
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Claus,
have you tried setting the 1st gear to something like this?
This will reduce the duty cycle for the lower gears and leave the higher gears alone.
Start Duty: -15% +-7% -1% +0% +0%
My problem is the opposite. The higher gears create more boost.
Start Duty: +3% +2% -5% -9% -12%
have you tried setting the 1st gear to something like this?
This will reduce the duty cycle for the lower gears and leave the higher gears alone.
Start Duty: -15% +-7% -1% +0% +0%
My problem is the opposite. The higher gears create more boost.
Start Duty: +3% +2% -5% -9% -12%
03-30-2004, 12:52 AM
#12
Three Wheelin'
You can also get very good boost control by setting the NE points closer together around 2000-4000RPM and then use specific RPM based boost settings (for duty cycle) to control boost. What I end up doing is using say 58% DC at up to 2500 RPM then 56 at 3000 54 at 3500 and 52 at 4000 and 50% at 4500 (these numbers are a guide only) that way DC is high whilst boost is building and then teh DC is dropping of as RPMS climb and boost has attained the desired level. I set all this in 4th gear and adjust the FB speed for the other gears to slightly adjust the boost response in those gears. Using this setup I always get the target boost level and it gets there quickly.
I dont have the actual numbers at hand as my stuff is all packed up and the car is in transit. Now its my turn to go and get in transit. I guess my next posts will be from Australia.
Cheers.
I dont have the actual numbers at hand as my stuff is all packed up and the car is in transit. Now its my turn to go and get in transit. I guess my next posts will be from Australia.
Cheers.
03-30-2004, 12:57 AM
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OZ,
Have a good trip. Don't forget where you found us. You may get dizzy being upside down all the time.
Until I get a new wastegate, I'll stick with gear based. Otherwise my 4th and 5th seem to go crazy high.
Maybe that will work for Claus... (Oh, that's why you posted it... Nevermind...)
Have a good trip. Don't forget where you found us. You may get dizzy being upside down all the time.
Until I get a new wastegate, I'll stick with gear based. Otherwise my 4th and 5th seem to go crazy high.
Maybe that will work for Claus... (Oh, that's why you posted it... Nevermind...)
03-30-2004, 12:59 AM
#14
Three Wheelin'
Excellent tuning info guys. Keep it coming. The AVC-R is clearly very capable of reducing lag...provided you can set it correctly. The manual just may be the worst ever published.
03-30-2004, 01:25 AM
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Originally posted by DanD
Here are the Apexi settings for my car.
Car Select: 4 8 -> (Points to 2 oclock)
FB speed: 3 3 3 3 3
Learn Gear: X X X X X
Start Duty: +3% +2% -5% -9% -12%
NE: 2500 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000 6500
Gear Judge: 135 75 50 35 30
Sensor Select: Relative 1
The last setting you have to realise I have a weak wastegate...
Boost: 1.2
Dudy: 90%
Nets me a pretty solid 16psi.
Your boost may vary...
Here are the Apexi settings for my car.
Car Select: 4 8 -> (Points to 2 oclock)
FB speed: 3 3 3 3 3
Learn Gear: X X X X X
Start Duty: +3% +2% -5% -9% -12%
NE: 2500 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000 6500
Gear Judge: 135 75 50 35 30
Sensor Select: Relative 1
The last setting you have to realise I have a weak wastegate...
Boost: 1.2
Dudy: 90%
Nets me a pretty solid 16psi.
Your boost may vary...
OK, I thought that I had better list all of my settings.
Car Select: same
FB Speed: Was 3 3 3 3 3, now 5 5 5 5 5
Learn Gear: 0 0 0 0 0 (Because I want it to recognize gears)
Start Duty: -3% -2% -1% 0 0.
NE: 3000 3500 4000 4500 5000 5500 6000 6500
Gear Judge: 162 96 65 49 43
Sensor Select: Relative 1
Feedback speed: I can't feel any difference.
Learn gear: I set "0"s because I want it to learn gears
Start duty: I am just starting to play with this --it may be the key.
NE: Actually, it could go as low as 2500 and as high as 7000. I wasn't sure where to set it.
Gear judge: This is RPM divided by MPH. Factory limit is 6500 RPM. First gear goes to 40 MPH, 2nd to 68, 3rd to 100, 4th to 132 and 5th to 152. That is how I arrived at my numbers.
What do you think?
Claus