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Kool, if you are in fact looking for something plug/play but will still allow you plenty of opportunity to do some self learning regarding tuning and configuring Paurtunig makes and sells every nice standalone and harness packages. Not that long ago he had a Link kit ready to go with a fully terminated harness and ECU. Appears to be very high quality stuff and he has been building these standalone kits for quite a while, so you could reach out to him if you're looking for a fully vetted kit rather than build your own. I think Chris White and others also have experience with standalone kits on these cars and may make packages as well. Also, Tom's package for sale is very nice as well, just not the absolute latest ECU.
Or, you could just take the advice of Auto_dorks and Rain-man930 and..... well actually I'm not even sure what the advice there is...
If I had another car to play with, I would be all over Tom's Link G4 kit. The ready-to-fit harness is a plus and I am sure a few people on here would be willing to provide a base calibration file to get whichever engine running on all stock triggers and sensors. It probably doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the latest Link G4+ ECUs, but who needs features such as throttle by wire on a 944 turbo? Keep things simple. Tom's Link G4 being the Xtreme it has the highest numbers of input and outputs of the Link G4 series, and this would allow monitoring as many data as one could think of. I miss having a few more I/O on my Vi-PEC V44.
There is nothing special about the 944 turbo engine, and using generic tools will allow the end user to compare his notes with people using the same tools on other platforms.
I would not trust self-proclaimed specialists who pretend to redesign the wheel when they are just trying to sell rehashed solutions presented as innovations, especially when they deliberately avoid replying to relevant questions. I suppose that FB allows them to "bunkerize" themselves into their small circle of pretended people in the know.
If I had another car to play with, I would be all over Tom's Link G4 kit. The ready-to-fit harness is a plus and I am sure a few people on here would be willing to provide a base calibration file to get whichever engine running on all stock triggers and sensors. It probably doesn't have all the bells and whistles of the latest Link G4+ ECUs, but who needs features such as throttle by wire on a 944 turbo? Keep things simple. Tom's Link G4 being the Xtreme it has the highest numbers of input and outputs of the Link G4 series, and this would allow monitoring as many data as one could think of. I miss having a few more I/O on my Vi-PEC V44.
There is nothing special about the 944 turbo engine, and using generic tools will allow the end user to compare his notes with people using the same tools on other platforms.
I would not trust self-proclaimed specialists who pretend to redesign the wheel when they are just trying to sell rehashed solutions presented as innovations, especially when they deliberately avoid replying to relevant questions. I suppose that FB allows them to "bunkerize" themselves into their small circle of pretended people in the know.
Exactly right, that is basically what I was trying to say regarding the Pro level Maxxecu being so overkill it's laughable. The 944 engine is about as basic as it gets...No DBW, no variable cam phasing, no variable valve lift, no DI, no vehicle side CAN bus, no wheel speeds on most 944's, no LIN controlled ACG, no variable intake runners, the list goes on..
Yet these guys are promoting and ECU made to run modern 12 cylinder engines with more logging capability than any of them even know what to do with. Yet at the same time trying to say the average 944 owner doesn't have the capability to tune and apply their own standalone, so it's truly laughable.
So I thought Id share my experience.. I have a Tec3 Electromotive standalone that I inherited from my brother in law. He purchased it as a ready made deal. he went through several versions of maps.. ect.. Long story short he blew it up 2x … then decided to do an LS swap.. I have all the hardware.. I put it into my track car when I built it.. Again.. Issues... SO... I took the car to RPR Tuning in Maryland... He proceeded to eliminate the ISV... Cam position sensor... and changed out the TPS back to the stock one. When he was done with the car it never ran so good. I actually couldn't believe it.. I have NEVER had a 44 Idle as smoothly and that's with no ISV... I was Floored... I have been Tracking the car and running the hell out of it for over two years and NEVER an issue... It just runs and runs...
Anyhow, its a simple standalone, Trigger wheel on the front of the crank, has knock.. and uses MAP instead of MAF So the inlet pipe to the turbo has nothing on it except an air filter.. LOL.. The harness is so simple. But no matter WHAT standalone you go with, Just be prepared to spend the extra $$ and have someone who does this stuff for a living and has years and years of experience tune it when you're done... Had my Brother in law done that from the start that engine would still be in his car.
The Sad thing is, Now that I have my PCA racing license, I had to put all my "STOCK" computers and wiring harness back into the car and my standalone and wiring harness are just looking good on an engine stand in my shop.. Im Going back to the Dyno next week to have all the "Stock" stuff dialed in.
Yep, people have had success without the ISV. Idle control can be done with ignition timing instead of air if one doesn't want to run the ISV.
One cool option for a track car that still runs the ISV could be using it as an anti-lag throttle bypass. Anti-lag meaning keeping turbo speed up while off throttle, under braking, that is now common in most motorsport applications, not the 2-step launch style anti-lag. Since we don't have DBW I wonder if you could use the ISV to control air while off throttle for an anti-lag system. Never done this on a non DBW car so idk how well this would work with the ISV but could be cool. I think most if not all the ECU's we're talking about have anti-lag features built in. Anyway.
Nothing. Currently installing a Link G4X fury. Building the wire harness now.
I assume you’re trying to hint that bc I don’t currently have a standalone in my 944 turbo that I’m not qualified to provide objective information based on research, facts, advice from other 951 owners with standalone experience, and personal experience regarding engine calibration?
I’ll ask you for a second time, would you like to provide some value or just continue to derail the thread, cause confusion and spread misinformation?
Nothing. Currently installing a Link G4X fury. Building the wire harness now.
I assume you’re trying to hint that bc I don’t currently have a standalone in my 944 turbo that I’m not qualified to provide objective information based on research, facts, advice from other 951 owners with standalone experience, and personal experience regarding engine calibration?
I’ll ask you for a second time, would you like to provide some value or just continue to derail the thread, cause confusion and spread misinformation?
Yes, I'm suggesting that by the time you have completed your project you can come back with something a little more substantial to share with the group than personal attacks and information from sales brochures on the most popular stand alone systems on the market. If you succeed and provide some documentation I'll probably be one of the first people to congratulate you. People who do have much more to offer than people who google and make plans. You're only confused by what I'm saying because you like to argue and you don't like to listen. My guess is you're probably in your 20s and you're going to be really disappointed when your Link doesn't make good numbers with the used K27 you scored on the internet. You'll probably figure your stuff out if you stick with it, but a little humility will go a long way when you've accomplished nothing in the community.
Yes, I'm suggesting that by the time you have completed your project you can come back with something a little more substantial to share with the group than personal attacks and information from sales brochures on the most popular stand alone systems on the market. If you succeed and provide some documentation I'll probably be one of the first people to congratulate you. People who do have much more to offer than people who google and make plans. You're only confused by what I'm saying because you like to argue and you don't like to listen. My guess is you're probably in your 20s and you're going to be really disappointed when your Link doesn't make good numbers with the used K27 you probably scored. You'll probably figure your stuff out if you stick with it, but a little humility will go a long way when you've accomplished nothing in the community.
What’s funny to me is Slapstick knew about the MaxxEcu Group Buy but bought something a little more his speed. 😆
Thomas did you find all of the pressure maps you are looking for yet?
I see RL is living up to its reputation.
Meanwhile the Premier group on Facebook is responsible for 12-14 completely new products for this car within the last two years. New Intake manifold, new billet merge collector long tube headers + crossover design, adjustable 8V & 16V Ti center cam gears with lock pins, 16V Ti crank gears, water pump block off plates to convert to electric drive waterpumps, three new modern performance 951 specific turbochargers that are all 100% bolt in, Kroon's new 951 replacement harness, ATI harmonic balancer hub drives, 8V Coil near plug adaptor plate, billet ITB intake, etc... the list goes on and will keep expanding. Some of the CNC projects being worked on will have big impacts on the entire 924S/944/951/968 community. I do agree with Thomas, i think it is good to keep the riffraff and noise out of our group so they don’t weigh everyone down and keep the cars in the 80s/90s tech wise, it definitely isn’t for people who can’t think outside of the box. There are 2,581 members currently in the group and that is plenty large to help show people the way to building a modern 951. I’m sure we’ll remove some more of the “know it alls” to keep raising the bar of what can be done with these old engines.
Hey Slapnuts, based on this preliminary sensor layout for a modern M44 engine setup, what ECU would you recommend? (This sensor graphic has since been expanded and is now integrated into an Excel spreadsheet to create a master list for the MacxEcu based on the pin outs and modern engine management components. This will allow end users to drill down and select what is applicable to their needs while at the same time ensuring the template is followed for scalability within the community)
What’s funny to me is Slapstick knew about the MaxxEcu Group Buy but bought something a little more his speed. 😆
Thomas did you find all of the pressure maps you are looking for yet?
I see RL is living up to its reputation.
Meanwhile the Premier group on Facebook is responsible for 12-14 completely new products for this car within the last two years. New Intake manifold, new billet merge collector long tube headers + crossover design, adjustable 8V & 16V Ti center cam gears with lock pins, 16V Ti crank gears, water pump block off plates to convert to electric drive waterpumps, three new modern performance 951 specific turbochargers that are all 100% bolt in, ATI harmonic balancer hub drives, 8V Coil near plug adaptor plate, billet ITB intake, etc... the list goes on and will keep expanding. Some of the CNC projects being worked on will have big impacts on the entire 924S/944/951/968 community. I do agree with Thomas, i think it is good to keep the riffraff and noise out of our group so they don’t weigh everyone down and keep the cars in the 80s/90s tech wise, it definitely isn’t for people who can’t think outside of the box. There are 2,581 members currently in the group and that is plenty large to help show people the way to building a modern 951. I’m sure we’ll remove some more of the “know it alls” to keep raising the bar of what can be done with these old engines.
Hey Slapnuts, based on this preliminary sensor layout for a modern M44 engine setup, what ECU would you recommend? (This sensor graphic has since been expanded and is now integrated into an Excel spreadsheet to create a master list for the MacxEcu based on the pin outs and modern engine management components. This will allow end users to drill down and select what is applicable to their needs while at the same time ensuring the template is followed for scalability within the community)
For that level I'd use a Motec, in conjunction with a C-XXX dash logger... If you're going to go to that length I don't know why you would restrict yourself to only your ECU as your data logger and why you would want to use an unknown ECU to do it. Have you used Motec's data analysis software or tuning software? It's quite good. What analysis package will you guys be using for this?
Also, I'd love to see how many of you actually look at or use any of that data.
For that level I'd use a Motec, in conjunction with a C-XXX dash logger... If you're going to go to that length I don't know why you would restrict yourself to only your ECU as your data logger and why you would want to use an unknown ECU to do it. Have you used Motec's data analysis software or tuning software? It's quite good. What analysis package will you guys be using for this?
Also, I'd love to see how many of you actually look at or use any of that data.
Keep up the insults. It's funny.
Would you use it? Or ARE YOU GOING to use it?
That is the difference between us. I don't tell someone to "buy a Motec" while I'm planning on using a Link Fury setup.
You make a lot of assumptions about people you don't know and who is involved with the MaxxEcu project. Buyer's remorse for paying full price for your Fury vs. close to wholesale for the Pro? Tell your buddy Conner I said hello.
Would you use it? Or ARE YOU GOING to use it?
That is the difference between us. I don't tell someone to "buy a Motec" while I'm planning on using a Link Fury setup.
You make a lot of assumptions about people you don't know and who is involved with the MaxxEcu project. Buyer's remorse for paying full price for your Fury vs. close to wholesale for the Pro? Tell your "buddy" Conner I said hello.
I'm glad this thread happened... No one on Rennlist would have known that Motec leads the industry without Slapshot. By the way the cheapest CXXX dash cost is 40% more than the whole maxx Ecu and wiring harness. JUST the dash.
Plus Motec sounds like too many features and way too much overkill for the application. Not sure why anyone would buy that.
Would you use it? Or ARE YOU GOING to use it?
That is the difference between us. I don't tell someone to "buy a Motec" while I'm planning on using a Link Fury setup.
You make a lot of assumptions about people you don't know and who is involved with the MaxxEcu project. Buyer's remorse for paying full price for your Fury vs. close to wholesale for the Pro? Tell your "buddy" Conner I said hello.
Jesus, you’re something else.
My car is a street car, not a race car. I have race cars for this level of data and yes I could/would/do use it...Going to that level for a street car is an interesting choice...and so is the hardware you’re using for it.
And no, definitely no buyers remorse here that’s for sure.
We had two levels of ECUs offered at close to wholesale. The Pro for track cars / race cars and the Race for the street car crowd. The Pro ended up being $2,450 shipped (Retail $3100) and the Race went for $1400 shipped (Retail $1850) with harnesses + accessories + WBO2s. Actually I just had someone contact me this morning for a Pro and was able to get him the discount even after we closed out the group buy... Anyways enjoy your Fury, but why would you buy the Fury it has way more inputs then a 944 turbo engine needs to run? Why not just get some stage two chips to go with your K27 so you can be 100% period correct?
05-13-2020, 08:26 AM
