Anyone know about this Manifold ?
02-28-2004, 11:59 PM
#16
Rennlist Junkie Forever
Crazy Eddie
The casting marks are mean nothing.
The "speculation", and that's all it is at this point, is that the factory "re-worked" the manifold. While this may or may not be true, you can rest assured that there is no way to get in there "after-the-fact" without cutting the manifold apart to modify and welding back together, thus any "reworking" would have to have been done in the casting stages (ie the manifold casting would have to differ from that of the aluminum 951 intake.) And even if this was the case, which I doubt, you would still have casting marks just like a regular 951 intake.
If I had to guess, and this is... only a guess, the intake is identical to the regular 951 intake internally with respect to the design of the intake/plenum passages.
At the power level that the cup cars were making, I just can't see the need to open up the ports. And given the fact that Porsche wanted these cars on the track, it would be an obvious presumption that they would run on higher octane than pump fuel, thus to get more power, it would be a simple as raising the boost... 290Bhp is extremely easy to attain on a bone stock anything 951 engine.....
The cup car intake was probably more of a weight savings than anything else. Again, the stock intake is not a restriction at the power levels the cup cars were putting out. To make the runners larger would only reduce the lower end power, etc...
So while it would be fun to get the mag cup intake on a flow bench, I'm guessing that no real surprises would surface.
And all this boils down to the fact that if there were changes internally to the mag intake, why wouldn't they cast the aluminum intake the same way? After all, if they can case the mag intake with a different internal configuration, they most certainly could cast the aluminum intake the exact same way with zero additional cost, thus they would be turning down "free" power to offer the 951 with, if in fact, changes to the internal dimensions of the intake actually resulted in more power, which I highly doubt at the power levels that the cars were making stock (including the cup cars).
Ok. I'm off the soap box now.
TonyG
The casting marks are mean nothing.
The "speculation", and that's all it is at this point, is that the factory "re-worked" the manifold. While this may or may not be true, you can rest assured that there is no way to get in there "after-the-fact" without cutting the manifold apart to modify and welding back together, thus any "reworking" would have to have been done in the casting stages (ie the manifold casting would have to differ from that of the aluminum 951 intake.) And even if this was the case, which I doubt, you would still have casting marks just like a regular 951 intake.
If I had to guess, and this is... only a guess, the intake is identical to the regular 951 intake internally with respect to the design of the intake/plenum passages.
At the power level that the cup cars were making, I just can't see the need to open up the ports. And given the fact that Porsche wanted these cars on the track, it would be an obvious presumption that they would run on higher octane than pump fuel, thus to get more power, it would be a simple as raising the boost... 290Bhp is extremely easy to attain on a bone stock anything 951 engine.....
The cup car intake was probably more of a weight savings than anything else. Again, the stock intake is not a restriction at the power levels the cup cars were putting out. To make the runners larger would only reduce the lower end power, etc...
So while it would be fun to get the mag cup intake on a flow bench, I'm guessing that no real surprises would surface.
And all this boils down to the fact that if there were changes internally to the mag intake, why wouldn't they cast the aluminum intake the same way? After all, if they can case the mag intake with a different internal configuration, they most certainly could cast the aluminum intake the exact same way with zero additional cost, thus they would be turning down "free" power to offer the 951 with, if in fact, changes to the internal dimensions of the intake actually resulted in more power, which I highly doubt at the power levels that the cars were making stock (including the cup cars).
Ok. I'm off the soap box now.
TonyG
02-29-2004, 12:30 AM
#17
Nordschleife Master
Tony,
Perhaps the work done to the cup manifold was done for high rpm usage, compared to the street driving they had in mind with the regular 951 manifold.
Perhaps the work done to the cup manifold was done for high rpm usage, compared to the street driving they had in mind with the regular 951 manifold.
02-29-2004, 03:23 AM
#18
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Sadly
I think TonyG is correct. I was actually thinking like Tony, but in the other direction. Meaning that they wouldn't Make a special casting just for the Cup Cars. So they probably used the same castings and just used the lighter Mg.
By itself it would have little impact but combined with so many other weight saving equip. & deletions the cars weight was brought down to ~ 2600 lbs. Now that would be substantial. So I paid 400.00 dollars US for a weight savings of 15- to 20 lbs. Huuummmmm that's 20.00 dollars a pound. I would have been better off tossing both seats and getting a few light weight Racaros. I have a Racaro on the drivers side but it is by no means light.
Thanks TonyG for your input
Regards
Ed
I think TonyG is correct. I was actually thinking like Tony, but in the other direction. Meaning that they wouldn't Make a special casting just for the Cup Cars. So they probably used the same castings and just used the lighter Mg.
By itself it would have little impact but combined with so many other weight saving equip. & deletions the cars weight was brought down to ~ 2600 lbs. Now that would be substantial. So I paid 400.00 dollars US for a weight savings of 15- to 20 lbs. Huuummmmm that's 20.00 dollars a pound. I would have been better off tossing both seats and getting a few light weight Racaros. I have a Racaro on the drivers side but it is by no means light.
Thanks TonyG for your input
Regards
Ed
02-29-2004, 03:59 AM
#20
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Ardrial,
Ya killing me ...:-)
I wasn't looking to sell it. I bought that 15 years ago. Today that would probably mean that I really paid 800. I will put it in when I get the wk done I need to do, but thank you for the offer. What part on NY are you from? I was born and raised in NY. I go back quite often.
Regards
Ed
Ya killing me ...:-)
I wasn't looking to sell it. I bought that 15 years ago. Today that would probably mean that I really paid 800. I will put it in when I get the wk done I need to do, but thank you for the offer. What part on NY are you from? I was born and raised in NY. I go back quite often.
Regards
Ed
02-29-2004, 04:55 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Pete
I have the wheels as well. Boy the trans. case must have cost a bundle to buy if/ when it was avail. That would save a substantial amount of weight as opposed to the manifold.
Thanks for your reply
Ed
I have the wheels as well. Boy the trans. case must have cost a bundle to buy if/ when it was avail. That would save a substantial amount of weight as opposed to the manifold.
Thanks for your reply
Ed
02-29-2004, 04:59 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
George
If you want I will measure it but I don't know what the stock one is supposed to be
Thx
Ed
If you want I will measure it but I don't know what the stock one is supposed to be
Thx
Ed
02-29-2004, 05:45 PM
#25
I am positive I have some factory literature that talked about it. I will make an effort to find it sometime this week.
Regards,
Regards,
02-29-2004, 05:58 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Luke that could be a poss.... I believe in those areas it would be a benefit
That manifold gets really hot but aluminum is a great conductor of heat and releases heat very quickly as well ??? WTFK
Thanks Scott
Regards
Ed
That manifold gets really hot but aluminum is a great conductor of heat and releases heat very quickly as well ??? WTFK
Thanks Scott
Regards
Ed
02-29-2004, 08:15 PM
#28
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally posted by Crazy Eddie
So I paid 400.00 dollars US for a weight savings of 15- to 20 lbs. Huuummmmm that's 20.00 dollars a pound.
Regards
Ed
So I paid 400.00 dollars US for a weight savings of 15- to 20 lbs. Huuummmmm that's 20.00 dollars a pound.
Regards
Ed
You do have a rare part.
03-01-2004, 02:02 AM
#29
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Tony how do they treat them in the 928 i.e. painted that same puke green?
David, let me pull that stick outta my eye,:-) Make that $50.00 a lb. but really thx for the info.
Hey Pete if you have nothing do, I would love to see that list if you could scan it?
Thx
David, let me pull that stick outta my eye,:-) Make that $50.00 a lb. but really thx for the info.
Hey Pete if you have nothing do, I would love to see that list if you could scan it?
Thx
03-01-2004, 11:01 PM
#30
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Sorry Crazy Eddie, my post was not meant as a jab.
You might want to just hang on to that Mag intake, I venture a guess it is worth a couple of dollars.
You might want to just hang on to that Mag intake, I venture a guess it is worth a couple of dollars.