Tim post my dyno chart!
02-28-2004, 11:39 AM
#46
They list their prices on the website. I think basic headers start at 999 and the V-band bad *** ones are like 2200. On the turbo I would guess you would need to specify what you needed/wanted to get an accurate price.
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02-28-2004, 11:47 AM
#47
Rennlist Member
All things equal, I would take a car with higher dyno numbers. However, I can vouch for the notion that higher peak HP numbers do not necessarily make for a faster car. I dyno'd my car back-to-back with another listers 951. My car made about 10hp less peak horsepower, but was significantly faster than the other car. After the other lister's dyno run, but before my dyno run, we guestimated that I had at least 50hp more. I didn't. But, I had way more area under the curve and therefore a much faster car.
Originally posted by Matt H
billgot - I dont understand that statement. Most experts say thay dyno number does not translate into faster on the street.
I will take a 350HP dyno car over a 250HP dyno car any day unless one weighs much less than the other!
There are differences in Cd but HP can overcome that, if anything airflow is BETTER on the street than a dyno cell, weight can be overcome by HP but two identically weighted cars the one with the higher output should be fast (all things being equal), temperature is likely better on the street due to airflow.
billgot - I dont understand that statement. Most experts say thay dyno number does not translate into faster on the street.
I will take a 350HP dyno car over a 250HP dyno car any day unless one weighs much less than the other!
There are differences in Cd but HP can overcome that, if anything airflow is BETTER on the street than a dyno cell, weight can be overcome by HP but two identically weighted cars the one with the higher output should be fast (all things being equal), temperature is likely better on the street due to airflow.
02-28-2004, 12:20 PM
#48
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Jimbo111, which wastegate are you using? The choppy curve (small spikes) may be related to your boost control (mainly wastegate spring) vs. knock or ignition.
02-28-2004, 12:31 PM
#49
Race Director
" Most experts say thay dyno number does not translate into faster on the street."
"However, I can vouch for the notion that higher peak HP numbers do not necessarily make for a faster car. I dyno'd my car back-to-back with another listers 951. My car made about 10hp less peak horsepower, but was significantly faster than the other car."
Yes! Peak-HP numbers are just for bragging rights; what really counts is how fast your car is in racing... at the track. It's the width and flatness of the torque curve that determines how fast your car is. I've seen Tom's recent dyno-chart and what impresses me is that his max-boost hits around 3500rpm and this torque-curve doesn't drop at all. In fact his peak-TQ of 291 lb-ft only drops to 250 by redline (about 1/2 of most modified 951s). In fact, 90% of his peak-TQ is available from 3400 to 6100rpm!
If you integrate the area underneath the torque-curve, this will give you the total acceleration over time (or over an RPM-range). So the car with the most surface area under the curve will be fastest. Doesn't matter if you win with a high peak-HP, that's only at a single RPM. But a wide-range of power is definitely faster.
"However, I can vouch for the notion that higher peak HP numbers do not necessarily make for a faster car. I dyno'd my car back-to-back with another listers 951. My car made about 10hp less peak horsepower, but was significantly faster than the other car."
Yes! Peak-HP numbers are just for bragging rights; what really counts is how fast your car is in racing... at the track. It's the width and flatness of the torque curve that determines how fast your car is. I've seen Tom's recent dyno-chart and what impresses me is that his max-boost hits around 3500rpm and this torque-curve doesn't drop at all. In fact his peak-TQ of 291 lb-ft only drops to 250 by redline (about 1/2 of most modified 951s). In fact, 90% of his peak-TQ is available from 3400 to 6100rpm!
If you integrate the area underneath the torque-curve, this will give you the total acceleration over time (or over an RPM-range). So the car with the most surface area under the curve will be fastest. Doesn't matter if you win with a high peak-HP, that's only at a single RPM. But a wide-range of power is definitely faster.
02-28-2004, 12:31 PM
#50
Three Wheelin'
Tom,
I understand what you're saying, and I'm certain that Matt does, as well. What both Matt and I don't understand is Billgot's statement that dyno numbers don't equate to street numbers. It's true that there are some variances between dyno and street numbers, but those variances are not that large.
If you analyze two dyno charts, and their respective hp/tq curves, you should be able to get a good understanding of the difference in performance on the street. The peak hp is good for bragging rights, but having a large area under the curves makes for the better car on the street.
Just trying to clarify the misunderstanding.
D'oh - Danno, you win that one. (Glad you're back, by the way)
-J
I understand what you're saying, and I'm certain that Matt does, as well. What both Matt and I don't understand is Billgot's statement that dyno numbers don't equate to street numbers. It's true that there are some variances between dyno and street numbers, but those variances are not that large.
If you analyze two dyno charts, and their respective hp/tq curves, you should be able to get a good understanding of the difference in performance on the street. The peak hp is good for bragging rights, but having a large area under the curves makes for the better car on the street.
Just trying to clarify the misunderstanding.
D'oh - Danno, you win that one. (Glad you're back, by the way)
-J
02-28-2004, 01:12 PM
#51
Rennlist Member
I think it is the combo of the Profec B, Deltagate, and HR ball bearing turbo that keeps the torque flat through so much of the rpm range. However, I wonder if it will remain as flat once I get rid of the rich spot. Maybe the left side of the curve will go up and create a more typical drop-off once I fix the rich spot. Maybe I'll get those new GURU chips installed today and see how it feels. 
he
he
Originally posted by Danno
" Most experts say thay dyno number does not translate into faster on the street."
"However, I can vouch for the notion that higher peak HP numbers do not necessarily make for a faster car. I dyno'd my car back-to-back with another listers 951. My car made about 10hp less peak horsepower, but was significantly faster than the other car."
Yes! Peak-HP numbers are just for bragging rights; what really counts is how fast your car is in racing... at the track. It's the width and flatness of the torque curve that determines how fast your car is. I've seen Tom's recent dyno-chart and what impresses me is that his max-boost hits around 3500rpm and this torque-curve doesn't drop at all. In fact his peak-TQ of 291 lb-ft only drops to 250 by redline (about 1/2 of most modified 951s). In fact, 90% of his peak-TQ is available from 3400 to 6100rpm!
If you integrate the area underneath the torque-curve, this will give you the total acceleration over time (or over an RPM-range). So the car with the most surface area under the curve will be fastest. Doesn't matter if you win with a high peak-HP, that's only at a single RPM. But a wide-range of power is definitely faster.
" Most experts say thay dyno number does not translate into faster on the street."
"However, I can vouch for the notion that higher peak HP numbers do not necessarily make for a faster car. I dyno'd my car back-to-back with another listers 951. My car made about 10hp less peak horsepower, but was significantly faster than the other car."
Yes! Peak-HP numbers are just for bragging rights; what really counts is how fast your car is in racing... at the track. It's the width and flatness of the torque curve that determines how fast your car is. I've seen Tom's recent dyno-chart and what impresses me is that his max-boost hits around 3500rpm and this torque-curve doesn't drop at all. In fact his peak-TQ of 291 lb-ft only drops to 250 by redline (about 1/2 of most modified 951s). In fact, 90% of his peak-TQ is available from 3400 to 6100rpm!
If you integrate the area underneath the torque-curve, this will give you the total acceleration over time (or over an RPM-range). So the car with the most surface area under the curve will be fastest. Doesn't matter if you win with a high peak-HP, that's only at a single RPM. But a wide-range of power is definitely faster.
02-28-2004, 03:13 PM
#52
Jon - you captured what I was trying to say only did it much better, I hate when that happens!
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02-28-2004, 03:28 PM
#53
Banned
Thread Starter
Im using a tial 46 mm with a home depot mbc. I saw the spikes on the fourth run with only 12 lbs. boost. vac hose came off. So I can't see it being detonation related. Maybe the controller. Looks like the same spikes as my air compressor makes. Who knows.
The torque curve isn't dropping below 300 ft till about 5500 rpms. The car feels really fast. Fast enough for me. A couple of months ago. I pulled a couple of NYC blocks on a 2004 s4 345 hp with no problem. That was before it was tuned. At the vette shop I went to the the owner has a c5 with tons of work. He said I will have no problem pulling his car.
951fan the reason I said ask tim it because I purchased the turbo almost 2 years ago. Things change in 2 years.
The torque curve isn't dropping below 300 ft till about 5500 rpms. The car feels really fast. Fast enough for me. A couple of months ago. I pulled a couple of NYC blocks on a 2004 s4 345 hp with no problem. That was before it was tuned. At the vette shop I went to the the owner has a c5 with tons of work. He said I will have no problem pulling his car.
951fan the reason I said ask tim it because I purchased the turbo almost 2 years ago. Things change in 2 years.
02-28-2004, 04:53 PM
#56
Nordschleife Master
Jimbo,
So would you now agree that the dyno at the dyno day was accurate?
Your first run on the dyno at this new place you went to sounds like it was spot on to the dynoday dyno. Aside for the 10 psi fuel pressure of course...
So would you now agree that the dyno at the dyno day was accurate?
Your first run on the dyno at this new place you went to sounds like it was spot on to the dynoday dyno. Aside for the 10 psi fuel pressure of course...
02-28-2004, 07:31 PM
#58
Nordschleife Master
Yeah, Jimbo's car a few months back was running around 10psi of fuel pressure (may have been 15, either way it was ridiculusly low) when I saw it run on the dyno a few months ago. It seems the person dynoing his car raised it significantly and thus picked up well over 50hp.
02-28-2004, 08:18 PM
#59
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Matt what I was trying to say is,even though you put your peak HP on the dyno you would have to track tune your car for speed take a 1/4 mile for example you may not run your fastest with that car right from the dyno.The first time I had my car dynoed I made great power but then found out on the street I was running very rich, when I was fine on the dyno.Then I had to retune to street.I am trying now to see the diffrance between the gtech and dyno.All I meant to say is its a little differant spinning a 3000lb drum then it is on the road.
Originally posted by Matt H
billgot - I dont understand that statement. Most experts say thay dyno number does not translate into faster on the street.
I will take a 350HP dyno car over a 250HP dyno car any day unless one weighs much less than the other!
There are differences in Cd but HP can overcome that, if anything airflow is BETTER on the street than a dyno cell, weight can be overcome by HP but two identically weighted cars the one with the higher output should be fast (all things being equal), temperature is likely better on the street due to airflow.
billgot - I dont understand that statement. Most experts say thay dyno number does not translate into faster on the street.
I will take a 350HP dyno car over a 250HP dyno car any day unless one weighs much less than the other!
There are differences in Cd but HP can overcome that, if anything airflow is BETTER on the street than a dyno cell, weight can be overcome by HP but two identically weighted cars the one with the higher output should be fast (all things being equal), temperature is likely better on the street due to airflow.
02-28-2004, 08:30 PM
#60
Banned
Thread Starter
The gauge was way off. I replaced it with a russell liquid filled. Best gauge to date. I went through 2 standard gauges. The vibrations and pulses destroy them on the fuel rail. I also had a local hose guy make me a 24'' hose to extend it close to the radiator. Injectors don't work at 10 lbs fp.