SamGrant951

Talking with some friends last night and mentioned I was dropping off my block at a local machine shop for a sleeve install. We started talking about torque plates and whether absolutely required for honing a 3L block? Obviously preferred but what if the local shop doesnt have one? I dont really want to buy one for $700, does anyone rent one or should I only send the block out to a place that does have one? I previously talked to Darton East @ PRI about sleeving it and they have done 944/968 blocks and have one.

Local shop has rave reviews and the guy who does all the sleeving does it all day everyday, didnt seem concerned at all and didnt mention needing one although he did state (by looking at one picture of the block) with the open deck block he would not use a flanged sleeve, not sure why as most seem to use that but stated he preferred to have it sit on a shelf/step at the bottom.

I have everything in hand I need to do the bottom end but this step seems like the most important part of the equation and is making me nervous

V2Rocket

here's a thought...could be off totally here.

but the torque plate is to get the head studs tensioned which apparently can distort the shape of the bores slightly, and that's when you bore/hone it round.

could that same effect be achieved just by stacking washers or something and torqueing the nuts to spec?

eman930

Doesn't spread the load across the block equally

Tom M'Guinn

For what it's worth, the factory manual shows a picture of the block being honed without a torque plate (but does say to torque the girdle in place before honing).

What studs do you plan to use and how much torque will you put on them? I know that Jason at Heritage uses a torque plate, but he also has his own over-sized studs that place a ton more clamp on the block compared to stock and/or raceware studs. At 65 ft lbs., I'd be less worried than at 150 ft lbs., but that's just my sense...

I'd say the most important thing is to find someone with a track record of successfully installing sleeves in these particular blocks. A stripped block is only about 65 pounds, so can be sent via regular UPS fairly easily anywhere in the US. Ask me how I know.

SamGrant951

Thanks Tom - have ARP studs sitting here, not sure of torque spec.

michaelmount123

I've sleeved lots of these blocks; both 2.5 and 3.0. I've also measured block distortion on an empty block and then with a head installed. The distortion is negligible due to the head studs attaching so deep in the block. So, unlike a block where the head bolts or studs screw into the deck surface, there's NO NEED for a torque plate on a 944.

I'll bet your shop doesn't want to use flanged sleeves because they cost much (much!) more than the $10.00 straight sleeves, and require additional machining for the flange. Flanged sleeves are also more dimensionally accurate. Take that FWIW. If your shop does lots of these, I wouldn't try to get him to do it any different from what he's familiar with.

MM

PS: Tom M'Guinn's first sentence in his last paragraph is surely sound advice. There's subtleties in the 944 sleeving process that are important for sleeving success. There's lots of horror stories out there.

GPA951s

+1-- took a bare block I wanted to rebuild marked it... Measured it with reference to certain spots (each bore) Then put the head on, torqued it and Re-measured from underneath, (no crank in) ... The Difference was not anything at all.... So I was convinced... Did the bore/hone with no plate.. that was 3 years ago Still Running strong on the track...

If you think about where a chevy engine studs /bolts engage VS a 944 engine... we can all see that the 44 engine pulls from way father down and therefore there is little to no distortion. I was skeptical but I had to see for myself... No plate= no issue...

E-man930

I would 100% hone with a torque plate and girdle installed and torqued up using proper lube and staging. I have personally measured distortion in the bores when under clamp load.

GPA951s

So Now I would suggest to take no ones word for it like I did since there are conflicting theory's now. Find out for yourself. Flip the engine over, measure the bores from the bottom, put the head on with a gasket, remeasure in the same locations and draw your own conclusions. I will add to my original statement that I had a MID sleeved block that I measured.
I called several 44 engine builders, and they all gave me the same answer- no plate. This is why I wanted to see of for myself, just because I found it hard to believe.
Also, I used the actual head to measure, WITH a head-gasket in place. When I measured I wanted everything bolted up as close to running condition as possible. I used Raceware studs and also I Torqued them to 95 Ft Lbs.. That was MY decision, (race-wares spec was like 65ftlbs) and so far no issues (3 years of track use). This also include the one time I had turned my boost controller all the way up and was running 25lbs of boost accidentally, I turned it back down to 15, but never hurt it.. Still Runs awesome.

87944turbo

Can you please share your measurements?

E-man930

The distortion measured .0005”-.0015” inside the bores of a Nikasil converted block using 625+ custom age inconel studs, billet .250” thick 316 precision washers, 16mm 12 point nuts sized M12x1.5 torqued to 120ft/lbs using CMD lube against the torque plate with steel inserts on top of a Cometic .065” 5 layer MLS on my 89 2.7 3L block with the crank and girdle installed with RW mainstuds, billet .250” thick 316 precision washers, and 14mm 12 point nuts sized M12x1.5 torqued to 75ft/lbs. Sam I would refer you to the Premier Group for high level discussion, it helps keep the background noise to a minimum.

87944turbo

Thank you!

V2Rocket

i wonder if some of that measured distortion was from the studs being torqued to 120 ft/lb, versus the stock 66-70 or whatever it is?

gruhsy

Premier Group?

What is this????

GPA951s

Must be where all the cool kids hang out, and eat gourmet lunches and pizza, while we get to sit in the corner and eat PBJ...