Short Shift... 15 min.. yeah RIGHT!! Your nuts.
02-03-2004, 09:45 AM
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Short Shift... 15 min.. yeah RIGHT!! Your nuts.
Ok... now most of the time I've seen good advice on this board however in this instance I feel I must post that 99% of everything I've read about regarding this topic is wrong!!
For anyone considering an after market **** OR the shortened shift leaver style shifter be warned! The stock Porsche shift is a thing of absolute beauty! It is heavy, has a great feel, and is rock solid. By comparison after market ***** feel like cheep junk! I just received a Momo **** and it is in no way as solid as the OEM ****. I probably should have stopped right there.. but I couldn't tossing away the money I had spent on the Momo ****... and my OEM had warn through the leather at the top of the ball.
Perhaps the ONLY replacement that is really 15 minutes is one where an after market **** includes a boot that fits the 944T. Once you remove the OEM leather boot you will find a rubber boot. Once you remove the rubber boot you will find a foam type insulation. Once you try to remove that stuff... start praying. You see, this stuff is OLD and it tends to flake. It also tends to adhere in its current position so it tares. I stopped here for fear that the noise coming up from the road would be significant if I destroyed this barrier.
Ok... no problem, I've read the forums I can shorten the leaver right in the car so I pulled out the hack saw and modified the existing shift lever. After 15 minutes of trying to cut my fingers off, the top of the shift leaver was finally off. Next... I put everything back together except the leather boot. Turned the leather boot inside out, and cut off the top ratty portion. used a zip tie and secure the leather boot just above the flare on the leaver. Now you can install the leather boot into place. MAKE SURE there's enough slack so that the shift leaver can go through the full range of motion. Next gripe was trying to work with those crap shims provided with the new shift ****. I tried to cut a few of the 'odd size' ones in half and remove as much material as the shift leaver was wide. I used black electrical tape to create a 'round' shaft using the pieces I had cut. The **** fit nice and snug over this make shift rod.
All in all, this 15 minute job was more like 1.5 hours! The end result is I now have a shorter throw and a cheaper ****. I will really miss my OEM Porsche shifter. The Momo ****, in now way, compares to the Porsche...
Just wanted to warn anyone considering this option. After going through this task I would HIGHLY recommend to forget about a shorter shift leaver. Go buy a new leather boot, I think the Porsche shifter is simply the best.
Peter.
For anyone considering an after market **** OR the shortened shift leaver style shifter be warned! The stock Porsche shift is a thing of absolute beauty! It is heavy, has a great feel, and is rock solid. By comparison after market ***** feel like cheep junk! I just received a Momo **** and it is in no way as solid as the OEM ****. I probably should have stopped right there.. but I couldn't tossing away the money I had spent on the Momo ****... and my OEM had warn through the leather at the top of the ball.
Perhaps the ONLY replacement that is really 15 minutes is one where an after market **** includes a boot that fits the 944T. Once you remove the OEM leather boot you will find a rubber boot. Once you remove the rubber boot you will find a foam type insulation. Once you try to remove that stuff... start praying. You see, this stuff is OLD and it tends to flake. It also tends to adhere in its current position so it tares. I stopped here for fear that the noise coming up from the road would be significant if I destroyed this barrier.
Ok... no problem, I've read the forums I can shorten the leaver right in the car so I pulled out the hack saw and modified the existing shift lever. After 15 minutes of trying to cut my fingers off, the top of the shift leaver was finally off. Next... I put everything back together except the leather boot. Turned the leather boot inside out, and cut off the top ratty portion. used a zip tie and secure the leather boot just above the flare on the leaver. Now you can install the leather boot into place. MAKE SURE there's enough slack so that the shift leaver can go through the full range of motion. Next gripe was trying to work with those crap shims provided with the new shift ****. I tried to cut a few of the 'odd size' ones in half and remove as much material as the shift leaver was wide. I used black electrical tape to create a 'round' shaft using the pieces I had cut. The **** fit nice and snug over this make shift rod.
All in all, this 15 minute job was more like 1.5 hours! The end result is I now have a shorter throw and a cheaper ****. I will really miss my OEM Porsche shifter. The Momo ****, in now way, compares to the Porsche...
Just wanted to warn anyone considering this option. After going through this task I would HIGHLY recommend to forget about a shorter shift leaver. Go buy a new leather boot, I think the Porsche shifter is simply the best.
Peter.
02-03-2004, 10:21 AM
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i don't understand what took 1.5 hours to do? it only takes 5 minutes to get all the stuff off to have access to the bushing and ball joint. i have never gone any farther then that though...
i would like to get a short shifter because they replace the bushing stud thing which transmits the power to the shaft going to the tranny (sorry about all the technical terms i'm using=). my stock shift lever is very worn, and can rock back and forth very far when in gear. i tried some homemade fixes such as shimming the bushing a little, but it only helped moderately.
i was wondering how you planned on replacing the stock shift **** with a momo without replacing the shift lever? you used electrical tape to make the rectangular lever round? i don't think that is going to hold very long. you know that the replacement shift levers are round to begin with right?
anyway, last question is what momo **** did you get. i might have to stay away from that one is it is junk like you say.
i would like to get a short shifter because they replace the bushing stud thing which transmits the power to the shaft going to the tranny (sorry about all the technical terms i'm using=). my stock shift lever is very worn, and can rock back and forth very far when in gear. i tried some homemade fixes such as shimming the bushing a little, but it only helped moderately.
i was wondering how you planned on replacing the stock shift **** with a momo without replacing the shift lever? you used electrical tape to make the rectangular lever round? i don't think that is going to hold very long. you know that the replacement shift levers are round to begin with right?
anyway, last question is what momo **** did you get. i might have to stay away from that one is it is junk like you say.
02-03-2004, 10:24 AM
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I agree. I just took my shifter back to all stock parts. I couldn't stand the noise and vibrations any more. I tried every possible method to get the damn thing to stop rattling and I couldn't. I'll probably just install one the kit that shortens the linkage back at the tranny.
02-03-2004, 10:55 AM
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The site I purchased the **** from is awesome...
http://www.ltbmotorsport.com/shiftknob.html
http://www.ltbmotorsport.com/comleatlook.html
Last week that **** was $39 bucks, I guess I got lucky. I would expect all momo ***** to be close to the same quality. Please note, I did not say the momo ***** were of low quality, I said in comparison to the OEM Porsche ****, they feel cheap.
The Porsche **** is what, about 4" long, has a metal square shift with molded plastic all around. The **** uses two rubber bushings, one at the top and one at the bottom. It then uses a retention clip. By comparison the after market ***** are round, use round bushings, the busing is ONLY at the top, and use 3 set screws to secure.
The Porsche **** and shifter are just designed beautifully. After seeing the assembly I would describe it as near perfection, so of course anything else would seem 'cheap' by comparison. I'm not sure what my expectations were for the momo ****.
5 Minutes! haha. I've NEVER removed the shift **** before and no one told me there was that much 'stuff' under the leather boot. You have to 'lubricate the leather' so that when it bends it doesn't crack. You have to pry out the plastic retention clip. Mine stuck hard cause it was the 1st time his was done in over 15 years. Then you have to turn up the boot. Then you have to remove that clip.. if you pop the clip you just lost 10 minutes hunting around for it on the floor. Next you have to pop that black button of the top of the shifter, then you need to slide the old **** out of the leather. You have to pry out the rubber boot. Mine was actually stuck VERY hard. I had to pull up the console so I didn't tare that rubber boot. Now.. your looking down at some molded foam. Did you remove this foam? You must have cause you saw the bolts. I did not. I tried to move it around a bit, but it is old and was a bit flaky and felt stuck in place. I did not want to damage this noise reducing barrier.
I guess, if you have no other choice, you must take action. If you take that action, where do you purchase a new sound barrier?? I'm just warning people who may be like me. People who have very good shifters that may be just slightly warn... I guess what I'm saying is....
PORSCHE THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE. Especially when it comes to after market shifters and shortened shifters.
Peter.
http://www.ltbmotorsport.com/shiftknob.html
http://www.ltbmotorsport.com/comleatlook.html
Last week that **** was $39 bucks, I guess I got lucky. I would expect all momo ***** to be close to the same quality. Please note, I did not say the momo ***** were of low quality, I said in comparison to the OEM Porsche ****, they feel cheap.
The Porsche **** is what, about 4" long, has a metal square shift with molded plastic all around. The **** uses two rubber bushings, one at the top and one at the bottom. It then uses a retention clip. By comparison the after market ***** are round, use round bushings, the busing is ONLY at the top, and use 3 set screws to secure.
The Porsche **** and shifter are just designed beautifully. After seeing the assembly I would describe it as near perfection, so of course anything else would seem 'cheap' by comparison. I'm not sure what my expectations were for the momo ****.
5 Minutes! haha. I've NEVER removed the shift **** before and no one told me there was that much 'stuff' under the leather boot. You have to 'lubricate the leather' so that when it bends it doesn't crack. You have to pry out the plastic retention clip. Mine stuck hard cause it was the 1st time his was done in over 15 years. Then you have to turn up the boot. Then you have to remove that clip.. if you pop the clip you just lost 10 minutes hunting around for it on the floor. Next you have to pop that black button of the top of the shifter, then you need to slide the old **** out of the leather. You have to pry out the rubber boot. Mine was actually stuck VERY hard. I had to pull up the console so I didn't tare that rubber boot. Now.. your looking down at some molded foam. Did you remove this foam? You must have cause you saw the bolts. I did not. I tried to move it around a bit, but it is old and was a bit flaky and felt stuck in place. I did not want to damage this noise reducing barrier.
I guess, if you have no other choice, you must take action. If you take that action, where do you purchase a new sound barrier?? I'm just warning people who may be like me. People who have very good shifters that may be just slightly warn... I guess what I'm saying is....
PORSCHE THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE. Especially when it comes to after market shifters and shortened shifters.
Peter.
02-03-2004, 02:20 PM
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I have no problem with the stock shifter either. On my old 85.5 I had a lot of slop in the shifter and replace the nylon socket that the shifter ball rotates in and replaced the lever with a new one. The parts were around $35 at the dealer and the slop was completely gone. The stock shifter is very accurate and precise when all the parts are in new condition.
The stock shifters throws don't seem that long to me anyway.
The stock shifters throws don't seem that long to me anyway.
02-03-2004, 02:49 PM
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I did this job in 30-45mins + welding. And I am crap. I have a momo carbon **** and momo leather shift boot. The **** feels amazing, and is shorter and the boot is very good. And I can colour if I want, easy.
02-03-2004, 03:37 PM
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Mine took more like 10 min, definitely not 15, it's cake to get to and remove, I cut the shaft with my air die grinder cutoff wheel, so that was maybe 10 seconds, then another minute on the grinder to replicate the stock end. Cut the bottom collar of the stock **** off, another 15 seconds, then put back in car with stock bushings. I have no vibration and a nice short shift. Stock ****, stock look, under 10 minutes guaranteed.
Sam
Sam
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02-03-2004, 03:39 PM
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Oh yeah, and if you used a round **** with the rectangular shaft, of course it feels like crap. You need a round adaptor, Travis @ Rennbay is making one soon, otherwise a couple places have had them for a while.
02-03-2004, 04:51 PM
#9
I used the SFR short lever with a Momo **** and am very happy with it. I agree with the 15 minute job.
If you had moved some of the foam out of the way (don't remove as it will resume it's originial shape) you would have seen the two bolts holding the lever in place. Remove those and you could have modified the lever out of the car.
I have not had an increase in noise or vibration.
If you had moved some of the foam out of the way (don't remove as it will resume it's originial shape) you would have seen the two bolts holding the lever in place. Remove those and you could have modified the lever out of the car.
I have not had an increase in noise or vibration.
02-03-2004, 05:11 PM
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Sam.... I hate to say this but I think your on crack. You honestly think the average person, taking apart a shifter for the very 1st time can do what you just described in 10 minutes?
Did your car have that sound barrier foam? Do you still have that foam in there? See that's one of the extras that put this job over the edge. That foam was a complete unknown. I have no idea weather or not to touch it... NO ONE ever talks about it.... Can you really move it over without damaging it to remove the shifter or do all you guys run with no foam or ripped foam? The collar is not a big deal... I can fabricate one... probably better than anyone else... but not cheap.
Perhaps I'm just dense, but EVERY time I get into a project the directions given tend to over simplify the procedure, with a few exceptions. Perhaps its the expectation of easiness that leads to the frustration.
The easiest project on this car.. hands down, replacing the bypass valve.
Take the replacement of the turbo water pump.... the directions stink. The procedure SHOULD SAY.
STEP 1. Jack up car and remove belly panels
STEP 2. Look under car at radiator on drivers side.
STEP 3. Remove the BIG blue screw from the radiator, this will drain the coolant.
STEP 4. Remove air intake lines.
Then the rest of the stuff everyone always talks about!
The 1st time you do this job you learn all this on your own... BUT you think your an idiot because no one ever talks about these steps... They say.. I changed mine in 20 minutes and simply put a rag in the line quick to stop the coolant. Or... after the coolant is removed this is a 20 minute job.
Here's another classic... replacing the spark plug wires. You know what makes this job easy.... telling someone to remove the fuel dampener. You know what makes this job stink... the fuel dampener is nearly impossible to tighten back on and not leak! So how about some tech article addressing this?
Easy... here's easy, replace the 7.5amp fuse. Another Easy is replacing spark plugs. Another easy, replacing the DME & KLR chips. A not so easy... installing a boost bolt! How do you route the extra hose.... Not enough hose clamps... If the 'provided' hose touches the manifold will it melt? All questions NO ONE ever answers.
Sometimes I think an engine rebuild would be simpler than these 'easy' tasks simply cause you know it's not easy.
Yeah riding a bike is easy once you've done it for years. I think calling every task 'easy' heightens the expectation and really makes me frustrated if it takes longer... for someone who has NEVER taken apart their Porsche shifter or any other shifter, this is NOT a 10 or 15 minute job, period!!
... OK now I'm done ranting....
Did your car have that sound barrier foam? Do you still have that foam in there? See that's one of the extras that put this job over the edge. That foam was a complete unknown. I have no idea weather or not to touch it... NO ONE ever talks about it.... Can you really move it over without damaging it to remove the shifter or do all you guys run with no foam or ripped foam? The collar is not a big deal... I can fabricate one... probably better than anyone else... but not cheap.
Perhaps I'm just dense, but EVERY time I get into a project the directions given tend to over simplify the procedure, with a few exceptions. Perhaps its the expectation of easiness that leads to the frustration.
The easiest project on this car.. hands down, replacing the bypass valve.
Take the replacement of the turbo water pump.... the directions stink. The procedure SHOULD SAY.
STEP 1. Jack up car and remove belly panels
STEP 2. Look under car at radiator on drivers side.
STEP 3. Remove the BIG blue screw from the radiator, this will drain the coolant.
STEP 4. Remove air intake lines.
Then the rest of the stuff everyone always talks about!
The 1st time you do this job you learn all this on your own... BUT you think your an idiot because no one ever talks about these steps... They say.. I changed mine in 20 minutes and simply put a rag in the line quick to stop the coolant. Or... after the coolant is removed this is a 20 minute job.
Here's another classic... replacing the spark plug wires. You know what makes this job easy.... telling someone to remove the fuel dampener. You know what makes this job stink... the fuel dampener is nearly impossible to tighten back on and not leak! So how about some tech article addressing this?
Easy... here's easy, replace the 7.5amp fuse. Another Easy is replacing spark plugs. Another easy, replacing the DME & KLR chips. A not so easy... installing a boost bolt! How do you route the extra hose.... Not enough hose clamps... If the 'provided' hose touches the manifold will it melt? All questions NO ONE ever answers.
Sometimes I think an engine rebuild would be simpler than these 'easy' tasks simply cause you know it's not easy.
Yeah riding a bike is easy once you've done it for years. I think calling every task 'easy' heightens the expectation and really makes me frustrated if it takes longer... for someone who has NEVER taken apart their Porsche shifter or any other shifter, this is NOT a 10 or 15 minute job, period!!
... OK now I'm done ranting....
02-03-2004, 05:23 PM
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15 minutes? If it took me 15 minutes to pull my shifter i would shoot myself in the face. I have taken mine on and off many times in the last few days to try and come up with a fix for the hour glass wear on it....seriously 3 minutes tops.
02-03-2004, 05:29 PM
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I guess I must conclude that I'm just not as machanically minded as I once thought... what a blow to my ego. Maybe I'll have to ask my wife or small boys for advice next time. 
Well thanks for the feedback guys.
Peter.
Well thanks for the feedback guys.
Peter.
02-03-2004, 05:47 PM
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I just wormed my hand down the shaft to push the foam aside so I could access the screws, yes it was my first time. Not to bruise your ego more, but I then had my little brother do it on the NA...
I'm with you on some jobs being totally misdescribed, like changing the oil? That's the worst job of all of them on this car, I'll replace the fuel rail, clean up and replace all vacuum hoses, change engine mounts, pull an engine, replace suspension, whatever, but I won't change the oil. I'm remote mounting my filter in the hope that I'll change my oil after that.
And on the other side of the coin, thermostat - what the hell is so difficult about that? Drain coolant, undo hose, attack with a good pair of snap ring pliers (KEY!), replace, refill, done.
Sam
I'm with you on some jobs being totally misdescribed, like changing the oil? That's the worst job of all of them on this car, I'll replace the fuel rail, clean up and replace all vacuum hoses, change engine mounts, pull an engine, replace suspension, whatever, but I won't change the oil. I'm remote mounting my filter in the hope that I'll change my oil after that.
And on the other side of the coin, thermostat - what the hell is so difficult about that? Drain coolant, undo hose, attack with a good pair of snap ring pliers (KEY!), replace, refill, done.
Sam