Electric Intercooler
01-15-2004, 01:43 AM
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Electric Intercooler
A friend of mine approached me awhile back with the idea of using an electric intercooler on his supercharged 5.0. This intercooler uses electricity from the alternator(30amps) to cool the charge air.I thought it was a bunch of crap and offered to build a nice air to air set-up for cheaper then what this electric intercooler would cost.
So anyways, he shows up two months later with the electric intercooler installed, apparently he didnt want the air to air setup;^)So I check it out.The piping is pretty hokey but to my surprise the electric intercooler seems to be working pretty well! It comes with a digital temp gauge wired to the unit but I want to install my own gauge in the intake manifold to be certain what the temp is. The car was driven hard and the temps stayed below 85F.Ambient air temp was about 80F today.
Now this is on a V-8 that makes about 500 at the wheels (at 13psi) so I wonder what it could do on our little four bangers? There is also a freezing option which can lower the temp to 32F. My friend is upgrading to this option. We are going to be doing some testing to see if this is for real.
So anyways, he shows up two months later with the electric intercooler installed, apparently he didnt want the air to air setup;^)So I check it out.The piping is pretty hokey but to my surprise the electric intercooler seems to be working pretty well! It comes with a digital temp gauge wired to the unit but I want to install my own gauge in the intake manifold to be certain what the temp is. The car was driven hard and the temps stayed below 85F.Ambient air temp was about 80F today.
Now this is on a V-8 that makes about 500 at the wheels (at 13psi) so I wonder what it could do on our little four bangers? There is also a freezing option which can lower the temp to 32F. My friend is upgrading to this option. We are going to be doing some testing to see if this is for real.
01-15-2004, 02:34 AM
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I am about to get involved in something similar here and another cooling alternative that has blown me away (I have been hushed)... hopefully I can use my car as a test car and see how it goes.
01-15-2004, 02:54 AM
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Originally posted by NZ951
I am about to get involved in something similar here and another cooling alternative that has blown me away (I have been hushed)... hopefully I can use my car as a test car and see how it goes.
I am about to get involved in something similar here and another cooling alternative that has blown me away (I have been hushed)... hopefully I can use my car as a test car and see how it goes.
~Eyal
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01-15-2004, 11:50 AM
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I was wondering when some one was going to make up one of these. I played around with the concept a while ago – there are neat little ‘electronic cooling’ devices out there that can show a pretty good temperature drop. They look kind of like a solar cell. When powered up they have a temperature gradient from one side to the other of 60 to 80 degrees F. You can stack them for greater differentials. The interesting part is how to get enough contact area with the cool side. I though of just bonding some to the out side of an existing intercooler but there would not be enough transfer area. If you built an intercooler around this concept it could work pretty well. The only draw back is that there would be a fair amount of electrical ‘parasitic loss’ on a track car. Typical track cars are full throttle for 80% of the time and the current draw would be noticeable. For a street car it would work quite well.
See http://www.coolchips.gi/faq.shtml#basic for some info on these chips.
Chris White
PS – there is no free lunch…..the power to run these does come from somewhere!
See http://www.coolchips.gi/faq.shtml#basic for some info on these chips.
Chris White
PS – there is no free lunch…..the power to run these does come from somewhere!
01-15-2004, 01:33 PM
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Are these peltier coolers? I had thought about integrating these into a intercooler at some time. They are used in overclocked computers and mini fridges like the ones used in cars.
They can produce a significant cooling differential, but they do consume a fair amount of power. Engineering for efficiency, differential and surface area would be important. Oh and integration into the air charge path wouldn't be easy either.
Any more details Tim or is this double-secret probation type stuff?
Max
They can produce a significant cooling differential, but they do consume a fair amount of power. Engineering for efficiency, differential and surface area would be important. Oh and integration into the air charge path wouldn't be easy either.
Any more details Tim or is this double-secret probation type stuff?
Max
01-15-2004, 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by macnewma
Are these peltier coolers? I had thought about integrating these into a intercooler at some time. They are used in overclocked computers and mini fridges like the ones used in cars.
They can produce a significant cooling differential, but they do consume a fair amount of power. Engineering for efficiency, differential and surface area would be important. Oh and integration into the air charge path wouldn't be easy either.
Any more details Tim or is this double-secret probation type stuff?
Max
Are these peltier coolers? I had thought about integrating these into a intercooler at some time. They are used in overclocked computers and mini fridges like the ones used in cars.
They can produce a significant cooling differential, but they do consume a fair amount of power. Engineering for efficiency, differential and surface area would be important. Oh and integration into the air charge path wouldn't be easy either.
Any more details Tim or is this double-secret probation type stuff?
Max
Probably the same technology.
and Peltiers draw a more than fair amount of power, but in some applications
they have proved to be great.
I'm curious.
01-15-2004, 03:21 PM
#12
Race Director
Yup, thats one of the alternatives that would eliminate the stock IC all together. There is another in the works ( I really really want to say but cant) that will leave it for dead. Again the stock IC is removed. It wont just be an IC though, has another cool function going on. Damn I want to say so badly. This idea does not have a patent hence the hush. The guy is trying it out on a Vovlo turbo at the mo.
01-15-2004, 07:41 PM
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Sorry for my language but this is complete and utter bs!!
Let's try calculating the power needed to do this.
500 rwhp => somewhere around engine 570 hp.
At A/F=12.5 and BSFC=0.5 you'll get an air flow of
570 x 0.5 x 12.5 = 3562.5 lb/h which equals 0.99 lb/s or 0.45 kg/s.
It takes 1010 Joules to cool (or heat) 1 kg 1 degree Celsius.
At 13 psi and 0.7 efficiency you'll get a temperature raise of 83 degrees Celsius. If you get 85 degrees F on a 80 degree day that mean you have to cool away with 80 degrees Celsius.
0.45 x 1010 x 80 = 36360 J/s = 36360 W => 49.45 hp
You will need 50 hp cooling energy to do this!
The current needed for this will be
36360w / 13v = 2796 Ampere! And this is at 100% efficiency for the cooler, in reality it's probably closer to 10% than to 50%.
In the performance parts business there has always been, and will probably always be, many totally unrealistic claims by companies selling useless parts. Even companies selling basically good parts are often exaggerating the gains. Let's be a little more critical and we may get rid of the worst crap.
Tomas
Let's try calculating the power needed to do this.
500 rwhp => somewhere around engine 570 hp.
At A/F=12.5 and BSFC=0.5 you'll get an air flow of
570 x 0.5 x 12.5 = 3562.5 lb/h which equals 0.99 lb/s or 0.45 kg/s.
It takes 1010 Joules to cool (or heat) 1 kg 1 degree Celsius.
At 13 psi and 0.7 efficiency you'll get a temperature raise of 83 degrees Celsius. If you get 85 degrees F on a 80 degree day that mean you have to cool away with 80 degrees Celsius.
0.45 x 1010 x 80 = 36360 J/s = 36360 W => 49.45 hp
You will need 50 hp cooling energy to do this!
The current needed for this will be
36360w / 13v = 2796 Ampere! And this is at 100% efficiency for the cooler, in reality it's probably closer to 10% than to 50%.
In the performance parts business there has always been, and will probably always be, many totally unrealistic claims by companies selling useless parts. Even companies selling basically good parts are often exaggerating the gains. Let's be a little more critical and we may get rid of the worst crap.
Tomas
01-15-2004, 11:54 PM
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Sorry for my language but this is complete and utter bs!!
Let's try calculating the power needed to do this.
500 rwhp => somewhere around engine 570 hp.
At A/F=12.5 and BSFC=0.5 you'll get an air flow of
570 x 0.5 x 12.5 = 3562.5 lb/h which equals 0.99 lb/s or 0.45 kg/s.
It takes 1010 Joules to cool (or heat) 1 kg 1 degree Celsius.
At 13 psi and 0.7 efficiency you'll get a temperature raise of 83 degrees Celsius. If you get 85 degrees F on a 80 degree day that mean you have to cool away with 80 degrees Celsius.
0.45 x 1010 x 80 = 36360 J/s = 36360 W => 49.45 hp
You will need 50 hp cooling energy to do this!
The current needed for this will be
36360w / 13v = 2796 Ampere! And this is at 100% efficiency for the cooler, in reality it's probably closer to 10% than to 50%.
In the performance parts business there has always been, and will probably always be, many totally unrealistic claims by companies selling useless parts. Even companies selling basically good parts are often exaggerating the gains. Let's be a little more critical and we may get rid of the worst crap.
Tomas
Let's try calculating the power needed to do this.
500 rwhp => somewhere around engine 570 hp.
At A/F=12.5 and BSFC=0.5 you'll get an air flow of
570 x 0.5 x 12.5 = 3562.5 lb/h which equals 0.99 lb/s or 0.45 kg/s.
It takes 1010 Joules to cool (or heat) 1 kg 1 degree Celsius.
At 13 psi and 0.7 efficiency you'll get a temperature raise of 83 degrees Celsius. If you get 85 degrees F on a 80 degree day that mean you have to cool away with 80 degrees Celsius.
0.45 x 1010 x 80 = 36360 J/s = 36360 W => 49.45 hp
You will need 50 hp cooling energy to do this!
The current needed for this will be
36360w / 13v = 2796 Ampere! And this is at 100% efficiency for the cooler, in reality it's probably closer to 10% than to 50%.
In the performance parts business there has always been, and will probably always be, many totally unrealistic claims by companies selling useless parts. Even companies selling basically good parts are often exaggerating the gains. Let's be a little more critical and we may get rid of the worst crap.
Tomas
Where the hell were you the last time I was getting frustrated with calculations?
