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Rogue Tuning still around?

Old 12-21-2018, 04:02 PM
  #61  
gruhsy
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Nice find. Thanks for posting

Originally Posted by bumflick View Post
https://www.kroonwireharnesses.com

Kroon is making a new engine wire harness for the 951. Factory wire colors, factory connectors. Prototype has been made, testing for fit and functionality underway.

They are reporting progress in a couple facebook groups.

I have given up on the Mtune.. this harnes, new speed and ref sensors and VEMS when the xmas bonus hits (after she who must be obeyed takes her toll).
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Old 12-21-2018, 10:45 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by bumflick View Post
https://www.kroonwireharnesses.com

Kroon is making a new engine wire harness for the 951. Factory wire colors, factory connectors. Prototype has been made, testing for fit and functionality underway.

They are reporting progress in a couple facebook groups.

I have given up on the Mtune.. this harnes, new speed and ref sensors and VEMS when the xmas bonus hits (after she who must be obeyed takes her toll).
wow, that's amazing. Anyone get a price?

As far as the original M-tune support, I think Josh has probably checked out. He sold the rights to LR and that's probably the only option. I know the new stuff is not backward compatible.
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Old 12-22-2018, 01:00 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by bumflick View Post
Darren, i have a high idle when warm...like 2800 rpm. I also have a high rev hang when lifting off the throttle.

I have put in all new vacuum lines, rebuilt the throttle body, replaced the idle control valve, and reset the idle multiple times. No bueno.
Well that's no fun. I removed my IACV altogether due to some weird behaviour coming off throttle. Your TB isn't hanging up and you're getting the little"click" when the TB is fully closed?
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Old 12-22-2018, 01:15 PM
  #64  
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I pulled my wiring harness out and I'm currently testing it. So far everything is OK continuity-wise but the harness is very brittle, for obvious reasons. I'd like to rebuild it or buy the lindsey harness. The Kroon one sounds promising...

On another note. I used to have a Supercharged 1984 944. I used the Rogue NA-Tune and when it was running it was quite good. The issue was that when I got the DME back from Josh, the car would intermittently die on me. No warning and no fun. I'd usually be able to tap the DME(early car = down by my feet) and it would fire up again. I had no luck trying to get Josh to fix it so I took it to a local company 2 days ago I know here that used to repair Porsche DME's for Porsche Canada. He found an intermittent short in the DME and repaired it along with some other internal issues. When I picked it up he asked me "What hack worked on this DME, it was terribly done!" "Whoever installed the Chip Tuner made a mess of it and caused the internal short" This now has me questioning everything I am using from Rogue. I'm running the M-tune with the Rogue DME and I'm pretty sure I have myself an expensive paperweight. I've tried everything to get it to work well but no luck. It's PIG RICH under boost and I can't figure out why? Having Josh disappear only makes it worse. It's too bad, he worked really hard to develop and support a product but unfortunately wasn't able to continue and that's left a lot of us feeling bad about his products. The fact that the LR stuff is slightly different only makes it more frustrating.

I don't know what to do at this point? I don't want to go back to stock. I've already spent a bunch of money and don't want to start all over with a new system like VEMS or megasquirt. I'm wondering if I can use an adjustable FPR and lower the Fuel pressure to lean it out? It's a Band-Aid solution but the car is so rich its almost undrivable.
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Old 12-22-2018, 03:51 PM
  #65  
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PM me Darren and we can walk through things a bit more. I feel like my setup is super similar (minus the Rogue DME) and I swear after fresh plugs and the FQS at setting 2 the car has been running amazing. I've been out on 3 shakedown runs and it is night and day. Hoping you'll have similar luck. I had seemingly the same conditions in vacuum and idle where things looked great but upon getting into boost the car was rich and fell on it's face. Josh and Dave both told me I HAD to run a 3.0Bar FPR for the MAF tune so I bought and installed a brand new one from LR during my overhaul. Obviously didn't change a thing with the way things were running. I did just purchase a fuel pressure tester from Arnnworx so I'm going to see what it's reading at the rail over the holidays finally so I at least have numbers in hand moving forward.
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Old 12-22-2018, 05:15 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by lincolnturns View Post
PM me Darren and we can walk through things a bit more. I feel like my setup is super similar (minus the Rogue DME) and I swear after fresh plugs and the FQS at setting 2 the car has been running amazing. I've been out on 3 shakedown runs and it is night and day. Hoping you'll have similar luck. I had seemingly the same conditions in vacuum and idle where things looked great but upon getting into boost the car was rich and fell on it's face. Josh and Dave both told me I HAD to run a 3.0Bar FPR for the MAF tune so I bought and installed a brand new one from LR during my overhaul. Obviously didn't change a thing with the way things were running. I did just purchase a fuel pressure tester from Arnnworx so I'm going to see what it's reading at the rail over the holidays finally so I at least have numbers in hand moving forward.
PM sent.
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Old 12-22-2018, 06:41 PM
  #67  
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The Rogue board was the issue with my M-tune. The car ran great with a Stock 28 pin DME I borrowed from Soloracer and the LR M-tune. I switched back to the Rogue board but had to have the switch in NA mode not turbo mode as it would not run in turbo mode at all.

I was under the impression that the switch was labeled wrong. Drove the car for August - Oct then parked it. This was 2015. Pulled the car out in May of 2016 and filled up with a full tank of 94 octane fuel and went for a quick drive.

The car when I pulled into my neighborhood, heading home, detonated when I let off the throttle pulling up to a left turn traffic light by my house. Detonated on 2 cylinders. Not sure if the Petro Canada 94 octane fuel was bad but I do know the switch in NA mode bypasses the KLR....after the fact

Now rebuilding the engine....delayed due to many projects going on.

F-tech9 is supposed to check the board when I send it to them..... but I decided to waiting until I fly down to Phoenix and deliver the board myself and pick it back up while there.
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Old 12-22-2018, 08:12 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by gruhsy View Post
The Rogue board was the issue with my M-tune. The car ran great with a Stock 28 pin DME I borrowed from Soloracer and the LR M-tune. I switched back to the Rogue board but had to have the switch in NA mode not turbo mode as it would not run in turbo mode at all.

I was under the impression that the switch was labeled wrong. Drove the car for August - Oct then parked it. This was 2015. Pulled the car out in May of 2016 and filled up with a full tank of 94 octane fuel and went for a quick drive.

The car when I pulled into my neighborhood, heading home, detonated when I let off the throttle pulling up to a left turn traffic light by my house. Detonated on 2 cylinders. Not sure if the Petro Canada 94 octane fuel was bad but I do know the switch in NA mode bypasses the KLR....after the fact

Now rebuilding the engine....delayed due to many projects going on.

F-tech9 is supposed to check the board when I send it to them..... but I decided to waiting until I fly down to Phoenix and deliver the board myself and pick it back up while there.
That sucks.
My DME originally had an issue in that it would not rev past 5000rpm. I sent it to Joe and he fixed that issue. I have my wiring harness out of my car and I'm sure it's the issue. The PO had the battery leak down through the tray and onto the harness, I took it out today and it's a mess.
My car runs really well, it's very fast it's just really rich at WOT. Idle and cruising are perfect.

I'm selling the M-tune. Going to try and put the car back to stock.

Last edited by DarrenD; 12-22-2018 at 08:29 PM.
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Old 12-22-2018, 10:25 PM
  #69  
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My experience with LR m tune has been rough from the beginning. I ordered it when it was still fairly new. I believe one of the first 30 or 50 sold. When I bought it I also bought rogues new DME. Also pretty new at the time. Without changing anything but the DME I started noticing some odd behavior with the new DME. The car started but I was now getting a rich issue. It seems the car was running extra rich and the car was compensating with the isv heavily to get the car to where it should be. After installing my lr m tune I had and still have the same issue. Im using the fqs to pull 11% fuel and it still struggles to hold 14.7 at idle. Wot is super rich.. low 9s. After buying a solid state DME relay from ftech9 I realised my DME was causing the pump prime feature to stay on instead of just for 3 seconds. I sent the DME to ftech9 and he fixed some issues and returned it. Pump prime is fixed now but the rich problem continues. I believe if I use my stock DME and wire the map sensor to the harness these issues would be fixed. From talking with ftech9, the rogue DME I have is a first generation board and some revisions were done since. It's seems from what I've read and my own experiences, People using lr mtune with rogues DME specifically connecting the map sensor in the external port instead of at the harness have some issues with their mtune. This is just speculation at this time though. I'd be curious if anyone using a rogue DME with lr m tune is doing prefect at this time and how they connected the map sensor. Id assume most people who already had mtune before buying a rogue DME had their map sensor connected through the harness and perhaps that works better than using the external port.? Or perhaps the port isn't the issue but an issue with the new DME itself.
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Old 12-22-2018, 10:54 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by mahoney944 View Post
My experience with LR m tune has been rough from the beginning. I ordered it when it was still fairly new. I believe one of the first 30 or 50 sold. When I bought it I also bought rogues new DME. Also pretty new at the time. Without changing anything but the DME I started noticing some odd behavior with the new DME. The car started but I was now getting a rich issue. It seems the car was running extra rich and the car was compensating with the isv heavily to get the car to where it should be. After installing my lr m tune I had and still have the same issue. Im using the fqs to pull 11% fuel and it still struggles to hold 14.7 at idle. Wot is super rich.. low 9s. After buying a solid state DME relay from ftech9 I realised my DME was causing the pump prime feature to stay on instead of just for 3 seconds. I sent the DME to ftech9 and he fixed some issues and returned it. Pump prime is fixed now but the rich problem continues. I believe if I use my stock DME and wire the map sensor to the harness these issues would be fixed. From talking with ftech9, the rogue DME I have is a first generation board and some revisions were done since. It's seems from what I've read and my own experiences, People using lr mtune with rogues DME specifically connecting the map sensor in the external port instead of at the harness have some issues with their mtune. This is just speculation at this time though. I'd be curious if anyone using a rogue DME with lr m tune is doing prefect at this time and how they connected the map sensor. Id assume most people who already had mtune before buying a rogue DME had their map sensor connected through the harness and perhaps that works better than using the external port.? Or perhaps the port isn't the issue but an issue with the new DME itself.
Interesting. The way my car, and it seems your car, behaves, leads me in the direction that it is how the MAP sensor is communicating with the DME. My car runs amazing off boost. The very moment it hits boost it goes Pig rich.

The MAF measures the incoming air, and the DME reacts with the appropriate amount of fuel until the MAP gets involved. It's there to tell the DME the car is under boost. Something in that communication is failing. The numbers the DME is seeing is causing it to ask for way too much fuel.

So what to do from here? Josh has bailed, I'm pretty sure he's the only one that can fix this but he can't be bothered. He did provide me with a new chip in the summer and told me of the rev issue with the DME and KLR so he was around but I tried recently and no luck.

Anyone up for a meetup at Josh's house?
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Old 12-23-2018, 02:12 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by DarrenD View Post
Interesting. The way my car, and it seems your car, behaves, leads me in the direction that it is how the MAP sensor is communicating with the DME. My car runs amazing off boost. The very moment it hits boost it goes Pig rich.

The MAF measures the incoming air, and the DME reacts with the appropriate amount of fuel until the MAP gets involved. It's there to tell the DME the car is under boost. Something in that communication is failing. The numbers the DME is seeing is causing it to ask for way too much fuel.

So what to do from here? Josh has bailed, I'm pretty sure he's the only one that can fix this but he can't be bothered. He did provide me with a new chip in the summer and told me of the rev issue with the DME and KLR so he was around but I tried recently and no luck.

Anyone up for a meetup at Josh's house?
From my tinkering. It seems the issue is with the open loop vs closed loop. This causes the most issues at warm up time and wot. Basically when first started the car goes into open loop which runs slightly rich. This is to help warm up the motor and fluids. Once the car reaches a particular coolant temp the car switches to closed loop. This is where the isv corrects your air fuel ratio to bring it to 14.7 at idle. Now when driving your mostly in closed loop so the isv hides the rich condition. There are certain situations such a quick change of the throttle position or wot detected where the car jumps back into open loop to counter the quick change of the motor. This is where you see it being too rich at wot but not average driving.

Try a quick test for me if you have a wide band guage. Completely warm up the motor to where your idling at or near 14.7( with the isv in place) then jump the diagnostic port under the hood to bypass the isv electronically as if you were setting your idle. Once jumped check your wide band guage and see if it's still near 14.7 a well tuned car with the jumper in place should idle slightly under 14.7 towards the rich side, let's say 14. To 14.7 .... I will almost bet it's super rich. Which means your car constantly compensates a rich condition with the isv. When the car is in open loop its read and react so it's calculating and this is where an error is happening pushing it too rich. Where as closed loop is reading the O2 sensor and adjusting fuel to stay at the optimal 14.7

Last edited by mahoney944; 12-23-2018 at 04:23 AM.
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Old 12-23-2018, 11:00 AM
  #72  
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I don't run the ISV. My car idles between 14.1 and 15.1 on my wideband at idle. It actually ides perfectly. It also cruises in that range too. So open loop is good. It's the moment I hit boost that it runs crazy rich. I was just chatting with a guy on my 951 Facebook group that had the same issues as me and dumped the whole system for Vitesse. His car was fine until boost and then crazy rich. I run the stock 2.5bar FPR and that has made the car much better. Id love to be able to use the Datalogger, but like lincolnturns. it just won't connect. I've just emailed Joe at Focus9 to see if maybe he can't help me with that. I also asked him if I could run an emulator so I can tune the car. I could fix the boost MAPS. I'm also going to try contacting Josh again and see if he can't give me some answers. I'm sure he'd love if we'd all just go away but he has a fair bit of my money so I'd like to see if he can fix it.
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Old 12-23-2018, 02:58 PM
  #73  
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Josh has replied....hopefully we can sort this.
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Old 12-23-2018, 03:57 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by DarrenD View Post
Josh has replied....hopefully we can sort this.
Good news. Hope you make some progress.

I imagine that Josh has a customer database and he knows what everyone has in terms of hardware / software, etc. And that someday that database will get leaked online so we can all see it...

I see problems posted online and I've had other people ask me for help in person too but often the missing ingredient is the exact M-Tune configuration being described. With several versions of M-Tune out there as well as different models and versions of DME's it's difficult to follow the debug trail sometimes.

I don't recall that a warranty came with my M-Tune. If it did it's long expired by now. I saw the whole thing as an experiment and a chance to learn something more about my car. I've had my share of frustrations and time wasted but for now I'm still experimenting with M-Tune. It seems stable now and doesn't run rich so I don't have much to offer that relates to this current problem being discussed. I have some Datalogger problems I'm working on but not with TunerPro or connecting to a laptop. That all seems to work fine as well.

M-Tuners could be more helpful to each other if we could be more specific about the hardware / software we're using. Maybe we need our own database?
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Old 12-23-2018, 04:11 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by mahoney944 View Post
Does anyone know for sure if you need a stock chip in the klr for LR m-tune? The kit does not include a klr chip and I no longer have a stock chip. I kind of remember talking to Josh one time and he said that any chip that works in the klr should work just fine but I'm not sure. I'm going to shoot Lindsey an email to verify too.

....update: Lindsey said you can use any klr chip.
Did you ever find a stock KLR chip? When I first installed M-Tune (bought mine from Josh not LR) I forgot that I had a Guru KLR chip and ran with that for a while. It ran but I was having some other issues like the engine just randomly shutting off so I went back to the stock KLR chip so as not to add more untested variables to my problem.

I have the image file for my KLR chip. If you have access to an EPROM programmer I'd be glad to send it to you. My KLR is from a 1986 Turbo. I can't say for sure if they're all the same or not.
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