Jeremy Himsel

Yes and I couldn't agree with you more.

Tim last week I asked for a few quotes on the product and you gave me a $418 quote for the 38mm and a $700+ quote for the 46mm. I already have a 46mm and need another 38mm and felt your prices were a little outrageous. After reading this thread it bugs me to know that you were excessivly overpricing your products. In the past I bought an exhaust tip from you when I was in a bind and you charged me for it. I found a local distributor who sold the same thing for 30% cheaper. unfortunatly I found this supplier a week after I purchased from you and it left a bad taste in my mouth knowing I grossly overpaid for a product.

While I understand that profit margins need to be up there bit but if you're able to drop over 25% off of your product and still make a buck you can understand why some people would go elsewhere even after your discounts. While I will always be supportive to using a US company I'm just a hard working stiff like you and the rest of the guys on this board and a buck is a buck. Additionally I drive a German car and 50% of my parts purchases support a German company so I can't in good faith fall back on the notion of old glory when I make my purchases for a Porsche. If a supplier came along and offered you a tial "knock off" that was completely legal and exactly the same at a 25% discount, wouldn't you purchase your stock from them? How could you not take that deal when you have a chance to reduce the cost of your inventory 25%. Unfortunatly Tim someone else jumped on your bandwagon and it's time to competitvly price your product. This is global business at it's finest (or worst). I'm sure you more then recovered your R&D costs on these plates. I will always pay more for service then I will for products but in cases where the service is the same I'm going to lean twords price. In the last three weeks I purchased parts that far exceeded the cost of my car. My vendor selection process was simple.....service, performance, price. Hopefully we can do business soon. Happy holidays.

MySwiss

I could not have said it better.

shaheed

i agree 100% with joe.

TurboTim

Tim, Myswiss did nothing wrong. He made a simple product slightly better

How did he do that? HE DIDNT!!!!!!!!! He just made the same thing!!!!!!!!!!!! This is the point I am trying to MAKE.Does anybody see it? The only pictures of our plates (on this thread) are attached to the wastegate and do not give people a good representation of our product.I have some great pictures here showing that they are almost identical to the plates Myswiss posted.So he never made the product beeter.He didnt do anything except knock them off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



If you want to get rid of him as a competitor, lower your price to the point where he can no longer compete. Make yours from
better materials (for some reason no one here is discussing that important detail). Add *something* innovative. Maybe try casting your flanges and
then adding simple secondary ops.



Why should I . I invented these things!!!!He needs to do something above and beyond, besides just adding another bevel to one side of the plate (that really does nothing).



I could make those plates dirt cheap (ask if you are interested) with a small investment in tooling.



Sure you can......but do you have a cnc mill? Did you pay for it in full? If not....what are your monthly payments on it? Are you going to add these costs into the price of your cheaply made plates? If you plan to use someone elses mill, are you going to pay for their set-up?You going t add this to the price of the plates? Myswiss had to do none of this becasue he had SFR plates in his hands.It is easy at this point.All the R&D is done.Just drop them off at a machinist and ask them when they wil be ready!You guys think it is so easy and cheap to make stuff but you forget three things, overhead,time and then the R&D!


Belittling a Canadian Rennlister is no going to get you any friends or new customers.



This was not meant to belittle him.It was meant for people to realize this guy is underhanded and he is preying on American ingenuity! He stole something from me/SFR and everyone is sitting here going hooray Myswiss! Then I am hearing claims about us overpricing our parts and if you look closely, you can see that most of our items are cheaper then anyone else out there or at least competitively priced.I have spent years helping people on these lists.I have offered group buys where we took our profits and chopped them in half! I have bent over backwards for 944 guys and I get this in return. Unbelivable, really.

TurboTim

Tim last week I asked for a few quotes on the product and you gave me a $418 quote for the 38mm and a $700+ quote for the 46mm.


Jeremy, I qouted you $368 for the 38mm Tial and the adaptors. I then added the price for shipping. The total did not come out to $418 unless yopu had specified overnight shipping or something to that effect. We have been selling this package for $368 since Myswiss duplicated them and tried to offer them cheaper.I am sure there is about 30-40 guys on this list that can vouche for this price! I qouted you $695 for the 46mm Tial with dumptube.The wastegate is alot of money and right now we are he only ones offering a complete bolt-on solution for this product.It is not exuberantly priced by any means when I know of other shops selling the same wastegate for $595 with no way to bolt it up!


I am sorry you felt you paid 30% more for an exhaust tip from us.We do not sell just exhaust tips. I did that as a favor to you but now you are ridiculing me for it? Did you ever think that we might pay more then your local supplier because we dont buy in huge quantities and now we have to buy one exhaust tip because we are short one tip from completeing an exhaust system.this means someone has to take time out to go and get just one tip.this means this persons gets paid on the clock to do it.This means the money comes out of my pocket. So yes I can see that you paid a little more for your exhaust tip but we had to go out of our way to sell it to you and unfortunatley, I am not doing this stuff for free. So I am sorry about that.

TurboTim

We are not grossly overhcarging for our products! This is nonsense. Does Myswiss have four employess to pay? Does he have to pay rent for a shop,
electricity, phone, lifts, machinery, tooling, Snap-on tools, webhosting, fees to the fire departments, fees for this that and every other thing, Insurance,workers comp? I seriously doubt it.So now add all this to the prices we set and then please tell me we are excessively overcharging!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!We are not.

MySwiss

Tim do You think Sears complains, that it's unfair for Wal-Mart to be cheaper, because they run a more efficient business.

Customers don't care why your prices are more expensive. They only want to pay less, every day, for what they want

TurboTim

Mysiwss, price is set at $299 now.Beat it or move on.

Jeremy Himsel

Tim,

I don't have access to that e-mail account and I may be wrong on this so to Tim and everyone else reading this thread I apologize if my price quotes were inaccurate. Tim I'm not trying to bash you here and if you recall threads a few years back I supported you when Huntley publicly accused SFR of stealing their business and products. This is no different from then except the shoe's on the other foot. I've taught business concepts for several years now and a fundamental rule of competitive/profitable business is......change your products, prices, or services before your competitors do.

Again, sorry if I misstated your price quotes. I'll check the e-mails on Friday.

Joe Jackson

Ok, so what. But what he did change was the price. In my opinion, it's a product improvement.

Why should you? B/c otherwise 10 other companies are going to offer the same thing as you but their's will be cheaper and you'll no longer sell any of your adapters. Wasn't it already stated that Huntley originally made a version of these plates but sold them for a hideous cost? All you did was lower the price. It's called competition, and everyone benefits from it. Granted, you might not make as much money as you used to but you'll be inspired to create something new so that the other guys have to play catch up. Or at least that's what you should do.

No I don't have a CNC mill. I wouldn't need one b/c I'd outsource the work to someone who has the need to own a CNC mill fulltime. If all I was producing was a couple of simple parts, why would I want all that cost? By developing a simple product, you run the risk of getting copied at a cheaper price. But you had the advantage of having it first and that adds value to some people. You also have a CNC mill at your disposal to create the next big thing. Myswiss (I assume) or I do not. So we are at a disadvantage.

Ok, so you admit that you offer the same thing as other 944 parts suppliers but yours are cheaper. Um, am I missing something or should every 944 parts supplier be screaming at you?

Tim, if you want to win take my suggestions. Make your products either innovative or extremely cheap. Otherwise, you'll have to live with the fact that you will be copied. It happens everywhere.

Joe Jackson

Tim, you incurred all these costs b/c you wanted to be able to make more than just a few simple parts. Myswiss and many others out there don't care about offering the full solution like you can. And you know what, that makes you that much better than those other suppliers. BUT, there are going to be a few products where they will beat you on price b/c of that. I respect you for building the company that you did. OBviously a lot of work, time, and money was put into it. But that doesn't mean that no one else should try and compete with you. If that was the case, then Jon Milledge would be the only game in town and we'd all be paying whatever he wanted to charge.

jsonnen

Personally I think these Tim vs Myswiss threads are silly. Tim is a bonafide business with a shop, website, employees, and fabrication skill's that are unrivaled!! Myswiss on the other hand is basically a middle-man with almost no overhead and not a lot of products available for our cars! The Tial is universal and not 944 specific. SFR has been in business long enough for me to realize Tim isn't going anywhere, how long will Myswiss be around?? I for one have ordered many items from Tim (including a Tial 46 mm) and have always been happy with his products and service. I would like to see Myswiss fabricate a exhaust as nice as Tim's and offer the wide range of products like SFR. I don't think this is going to happen anytime soon, so in the meantime if all you people care about is the price and not supporting a business who has contributed immensely to this board then buy from whoever is cheapest! (oh i guess Tim is also the cheapest now). Even better!!!

shaheed

tim,
respectfully in my opinion you've failed to prove your contention about myswiss ripping you off. if someone were to apply the logic that you are using they could say that were ripping huntley off when you started SFR since you guys started selling a split second based MAF kit even though huntley had been selling a split second based MAF kit for years.

jsonnen, this is not about not supporting a long time member who has made valuable contributions -- i purchased fuel lines from SFR just last week and will continue to purchase items from them. i just don't see that it's warranted to malign myswiss in this case. and given the excellent service i have received from myswiss i will definitely purchase from him in the future too.

competition is part of capitalism guys.

ewainwright

"competition is part of capitalism" at its best

turbo951fan

For most people price is the first most important thing, then service, quality of the product etc. Regarding copyright, is there any for those SFR adaptors? NO. Guys, that's what MSFT has been doing for years, stealing other people's ideas, anybody complaining about that other than the small companies themselves which have been erased by MSFT? No.

What I see in this discussion (and also from other posts) is, that My Swiss is not attacking SFR verbally (when attacked from SFR), he did nothing wrong, he is providing excellent service and price to his customers, he seems to be a nice guy.

We should be happy about that kind of competition.