Vitesse V-MAF+ Impressions
12-16-2017, 05:25 PM
#1
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Vitesse V-MAF+ Impressions
I recently upgraded the chip board in my '88 951 from 2007 Vitesse MAF software to current V-MAF + software, MAP sensor & high-impedance injectors.
The install was very straight forward, eliminate previous injector resistors, mount & wire in MAP,
tweak the PB so it recognizes the MAP sensor as well as set max RPM & boost.
My SMT-6 PB is first generation Vitesse from 2005. It required additional tweaking that John solved with a single email.
The V-MAF+ is my third software upgrade from Vitesse and BY FAR the most dramatic performance increase.
The off throttle, low end & mid range throttle response has completely come alive, my initial impression is that it seems like a completely different car!
Smoother, easier and more respectable to drive stop light to stop light. But mash the throttle and easily spin the tires.
Not sure how it could be, but boost comes on more smoothly and it seems like I can generate higher boost lower in the RPM range than before.
It was 45 degrees here today, I have 5 gal of 100 octane & 3 gal of 91 ethanol free rec. fuel, with the Race fuel MAP switched on, the car easily spun the tires after flooring the throttle in 3rd gear rolling along about 40 mph. Shocking!
Rock steady idle at 900 RPM. No hunting or fluctuation what so ever.
As always, I can't speak highly enough for John's patience and kindness.
Having been a career Sales Rep, I tend to be an extremely demanding customer. I expect the level of service that I give.
Over the years doing business with Vitesse, John continues to exceed my expectation. This time was no different.
Two instances during the install I needed his assistance, a simple email and within 15 minutes I had my answer.
And I'll tell you, once you have John's attention, he gives you 110%.
John's customer service is legendary and well documented here. It is outstanding products like V-MAF+ and top notch service that make loyal customers.
The install was very straight forward, eliminate previous injector resistors, mount & wire in MAP,
tweak the PB so it recognizes the MAP sensor as well as set max RPM & boost.
My SMT-6 PB is first generation Vitesse from 2005. It required additional tweaking that John solved with a single email.
The V-MAF+ is my third software upgrade from Vitesse and BY FAR the most dramatic performance increase.
The off throttle, low end & mid range throttle response has completely come alive, my initial impression is that it seems like a completely different car!
Smoother, easier and more respectable to drive stop light to stop light. But mash the throttle and easily spin the tires.
Not sure how it could be, but boost comes on more smoothly and it seems like I can generate higher boost lower in the RPM range than before.
It was 45 degrees here today, I have 5 gal of 100 octane & 3 gal of 91 ethanol free rec. fuel, with the Race fuel MAP switched on, the car easily spun the tires after flooring the throttle in 3rd gear rolling along about 40 mph. Shocking!
Rock steady idle at 900 RPM. No hunting or fluctuation what so ever.
As always, I can't speak highly enough for John's patience and kindness.
Having been a career Sales Rep, I tend to be an extremely demanding customer. I expect the level of service that I give.
Over the years doing business with Vitesse, John continues to exceed my expectation. This time was no different.
Two instances during the install I needed his assistance, a simple email and within 15 minutes I had my answer.
And I'll tell you, once you have John's attention, he gives you 110%.
John's customer service is legendary and well documented here. It is outstanding products like V-MAF+ and top notch service that make loyal customers.
Last edited by mwc951; 12-17-2017 at 11:45 AM.
12-16-2017, 10:48 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
I recently upgraded the chip board in my '88 951 from 2007 Vitesse MAF software to current V-MAF + software, MAP sensor & high-impedance injectors.
The install was very straight forward, eliminate previous injector resistors, mount & wire in MAP,
tweak the PB so it recognizes the MAP sensor as well as set max RPM & boost.
My SMT-6 PB is first generation Vitesse from 2005. It required a minimal amount of additional tweaking that John solved with a single email.
The V-MAF+ is my third software upgrade from Vitesse and BY FAR the most dramatic performance increase.
The off throttle, low end & mid range throttle response has completely come alive, my initial impression is that it seems like a completely different car!
Smoother, easier and more respectable to drive stop light to stop light. But mash the throttle and easily spin the tires.
Not sure how it could be, but boost comes on more smoothly and it seems like I can generate higher boost lower in the RPM range than before.
It was 45 degrees here today, I have 5 gal of 100 octane & 3 gal of 91 ethanol free rec. fuel, with the Race fuel MAP switched on, the car easily spun the tires after flooring the throttle in 3rd gear rolling along about 40 mph. Shocking!
Rock steady idle at 900 RPM. No hunting or fluctuation what so ever.
As always, I can't speak highly enough for John's patience and kindness.
Having been a career Sales Rep, I tend to be an extremely demanding customer. I expect the level of service that I give.
Over the years doing business with Vitesse, John continues to exceed my expectation. This time was no different.
Two instances during the install I needed his assistance, a simple email and within 15 minutes I had my answer.
And I'll tell you, once you have John's attention, he gives you 110%.
John's customer service is legendary and well documented here. It is outstanding products like V-MAF+ and top notch service that make loyal customers.
The install was very straight forward, eliminate previous injector resistors, mount & wire in MAP,
tweak the PB so it recognizes the MAP sensor as well as set max RPM & boost.
My SMT-6 PB is first generation Vitesse from 2005. It required a minimal amount of additional tweaking that John solved with a single email.
The V-MAF+ is my third software upgrade from Vitesse and BY FAR the most dramatic performance increase.
The off throttle, low end & mid range throttle response has completely come alive, my initial impression is that it seems like a completely different car!
Smoother, easier and more respectable to drive stop light to stop light. But mash the throttle and easily spin the tires.
Not sure how it could be, but boost comes on more smoothly and it seems like I can generate higher boost lower in the RPM range than before.
It was 45 degrees here today, I have 5 gal of 100 octane & 3 gal of 91 ethanol free rec. fuel, with the Race fuel MAP switched on, the car easily spun the tires after flooring the throttle in 3rd gear rolling along about 40 mph. Shocking!
Rock steady idle at 900 RPM. No hunting or fluctuation what so ever.
As always, I can't speak highly enough for John's patience and kindness.
Having been a career Sales Rep, I tend to be an extremely demanding customer. I expect the level of service that I give.
Over the years doing business with Vitesse, John continues to exceed my expectation. This time was no different.
Two instances during the install I needed his assistance, a simple email and within 15 minutes I had my answer.
And I'll tell you, once you have John's attention, he gives you 110%.
John's customer service is legendary and well documented here. It is outstanding products like V-MAF+ and top notch service that make loyal customers.
12-17-2017, 12:39 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
However I "pulled the cork" by removing the AFM waaayyy back in 2003 and installed an Autothority MAF, chips & infamous banjo bolt! LOL!
Then upgraded to a Gen.1 Vitesse MAF kit, software & PB a few years later.
Having been playing with bolt-on mods for these cars since the late 90's,
I can honestly say V-MAF+ has made a very significant impression on my driving experience.
It really complements the K27/6, Lindsey modded intercooler & head, and other stuff I've added to the car.
At some point, I would love to install one of John's turbos.
12-18-2017, 05:07 PM
#7
Instructor
Does anyone have any data (or thoughts) as to how the Vitesse MAF upgrade compares to VEMS? The latter seems to be a newer technology, but I have only heard positive feedback on the Vitesse MAF.
I'm contemplating my winter project for my mostly stock (Lindsey chip and Tial WG, but stock k28/7turbo & stock exhaust) 951S.
Thanks all
I'm contemplating my winter project for my mostly stock (Lindsey chip and Tial WG, but stock k28/7turbo & stock exhaust) 951S.
Thanks all
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12-18-2017, 09:54 PM
#8
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Thread Starter
Chapman...the K27/6 spools quickly around 1800-2000 RPM and pulls strong until about 5000-5500 rpm.
The curve seems linear and the pull is smooth and strong, not what I would describe as "come alive".
IMHO, that's why V-MAF+ complements my set up so well.
I run 16-17 lb of boost on 93 octane pump fuel and 18-20lb with race fuel blended into the tank.
The Blitz SBC i-D EBC I have installed gives me rock solid boost control, so I opted out of the integrated Vitesse boost control.
The curve seems linear and the pull is smooth and strong, not what I would describe as "come alive".
IMHO, that's why V-MAF+ complements my set up so well.
I run 16-17 lb of boost on 93 octane pump fuel and 18-20lb with race fuel blended into the tank.
The Blitz SBC i-D EBC I have installed gives me rock solid boost control, so I opted out of the integrated Vitesse boost control.
12-19-2017, 06:50 AM
#9
In my experience, the Vitesse MAF is a lot of work to install considering how much soldering has to be made to the stock wiring.
I found the software remarkably crude and nowhere near as flexible as with a modern full standalone ECU, especially some odd troubleshooting methods that always made me feel like I was never going to go anywhere on my own, I was always frustrated with the "black box" side of the SMT6 which never gave all the visibility I needed to get a satisfying picture of what was going on in my engine, and even more frustrating that with pretty much any basic issue I had to turn to John for assistance.
John was very helpful for the most, but as soon as I started to ask more specific questions that may have him reveal how his programming worked, I got frustratingly evasive replies. If he had told me right away there was things he could not reveal because it potentially involved a business risk, perhaps the slowly-growing urge to upgrade to a standalone would not have taken over and I may still be running his Vitesse equipment just like my two other friends do.
I am not complete yet with the install of the VEMS, but so far so good. It took me 10 minutes to review the input and outputs we asked Raceboy to specificy for the particular set up of my friend and I got nearly immediate assistance through messenger. A definitive bonus is not having to mess with the wiring at all as the VEMS ECU box plugs right into the DME/KLR plugs of the harness through the connector interface provided with the kit.
When digging into engine tuning for the first time, support is what matters most. My deepest respect goes to John who offers assistance with a now dated and complex Motronic programming to many customers who can go through some faults sometimes caused by odd various voltage issues. I got the chance to be shown quickly from a German 951 Motronic tuner (who rewrote the code to replace the MAF sensor with a MAP sensor) how the Motronic programming worked, and as he put it himself, this is really "stone age" stuff.
I would say choosing either solution essentially boils down to how far the user wants to learn how to tune, how to troubleshoot, and how much of the responsibility in the tune they want to bear themselves.
Last edited by Thom; 12-19-2017 at 08:54 AM. Reason: Spelling
12-19-2017, 12:05 PM
#10
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Mike (MWX951), Tom M'Guinn I'm glad to know you are still enjoying the Vitesse products after all those years. As always, I appreciate your kind words and your support.
It's hard to imagine where it all started and where we are now. The Original Motronic software was ok, but after years of design and development and after listening the what the 951 owners wanted the V-MAF+ was released and it delivers. The new software incorporates performance, reliability and safety! Still running on the original Motronic boxes.
More glad to see old hardware from 13-14 years ago still functioning. We are able to offer the original owners with the old software/hardware a path to upgrade to the latest V-MAF+ software so they can benefits from all the new features it offers.
It's hard to imagine where it all started and where we are now. The Original Motronic software was ok, but after years of design and development and after listening the what the 951 owners wanted the V-MAF+ was released and it delivers. The new software incorporates performance, reliability and safety! Still running on the original Motronic boxes.
More glad to see old hardware from 13-14 years ago still functioning. We are able to offer the original owners with the old software/hardware a path to upgrade to the latest V-MAF+ software so they can benefits from all the new features it offers.
12-19-2017, 12:39 PM
#11
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Thom,
Thank you for sharing your experience, even though you are not comparing apples to apples.
The system you had, as I recall from around 10 years ago, was not V-MAF+. You are describing the old PiggyBack (which was discontinued 7-8 years ago and has no relation to the V-MAF+). Yes the Piggyback, as you noted requires wiring and takes a few hours to install. But this has nothing to do with the V-MAF+.
The Vitesse V-MAF+ does not require a PiggyBack, so there is no need for the extra wiring and the user has no software to deal with. Just plug the chipboard in the DME. The PiggyBack is optional for those that like or need to tinker (it has its own software to run on a laptop, not to be confused with the DME software supplied with the MAF).
Thom, I'm glad you got a system that suits your particular needs. You are the type of 951 owner that likes to get involved in the lowest details, and you enjoy this aspect of it.
The Vitesse MAF system (with the V-MAF+ software) is designed to be plug and play. You install it and you are done! No need to tinker, no need to tune... . The Vitesse MAF system now comes standard with the V-MAF+ software. The Vitesse MAF does not require a PiggyBack,
Thom you bring up a good point about "abnormal voltages"! The stock factory harness aged, it does need attention. Old wiring and old connections are the root cause of most issues we encountered. This issue will come up with any system still using the stock wiring harness. The good news is that repairing the stock harness is not hard nor expensive.
In the old days, when Thom had his system, I had to spend needless hours supporting customers. The time was spent due to the lack of good diagnostic tools. So a Voltmeter and lots of hand holding were the norm. Now, we offer the Motronic Monitor, which simplifies the diagnostic process. You are able to monitor what the DME sees live. The days of having to probe the TPS or coolant sensor or.. are long gone. Now you see the values live as the DME sees them. So what took hours to figure out, not takes a couple of minutes. Of course, there will always be the problem that kills hours and frustrates everyone involved will always show up (Thom, I'm sure you recall the lifter/cam/springs issue you had).
The bottom line, the system you chose should be based on your requirements. If you want to spend hours if not days tinkering and tuning then maybe a standalone or a PiggyBack. If you want a plug and play system, just set and forget, benefiting from 20-30 years of experience then V-MAF+ system suits you best.
Every system has a purpose. Support is a must regardless with which system you go with. You will always come across an issue that requires help. That's what seals the deal!
Thank you for sharing your experience, even though you are not comparing apples to apples.
The system you had, as I recall from around 10 years ago, was not V-MAF+. You are describing the old PiggyBack (which was discontinued 7-8 years ago and has no relation to the V-MAF+). Yes the Piggyback, as you noted requires wiring and takes a few hours to install. But this has nothing to do with the V-MAF+.
The Vitesse V-MAF+ does not require a PiggyBack, so there is no need for the extra wiring and the user has no software to deal with. Just plug the chipboard in the DME. The PiggyBack is optional for those that like or need to tinker (it has its own software to run on a laptop, not to be confused with the DME software supplied with the MAF).
Thom, I'm glad you got a system that suits your particular needs. You are the type of 951 owner that likes to get involved in the lowest details, and you enjoy this aspect of it.
The Vitesse MAF system (with the V-MAF+ software) is designed to be plug and play. You install it and you are done! No need to tinker, no need to tune... . The Vitesse MAF system now comes standard with the V-MAF+ software. The Vitesse MAF does not require a PiggyBack,
Thom you bring up a good point about "abnormal voltages"! The stock factory harness aged, it does need attention. Old wiring and old connections are the root cause of most issues we encountered. This issue will come up with any system still using the stock wiring harness. The good news is that repairing the stock harness is not hard nor expensive.
In the old days, when Thom had his system, I had to spend needless hours supporting customers. The time was spent due to the lack of good diagnostic tools. So a Voltmeter and lots of hand holding were the norm. Now, we offer the Motronic Monitor, which simplifies the diagnostic process. You are able to monitor what the DME sees live. The days of having to probe the TPS or coolant sensor or.. are long gone. Now you see the values live as the DME sees them. So what took hours to figure out, not takes a couple of minutes. Of course, there will always be the problem that kills hours and frustrates everyone involved will always show up (Thom, I'm sure you recall the lifter/cam/springs issue you had).
The bottom line, the system you chose should be based on your requirements. If you want to spend hours if not days tinkering and tuning then maybe a standalone or a PiggyBack. If you want a plug and play system, just set and forget, benefiting from 20-30 years of experience then V-MAF+ system suits you best.
Every system has a purpose. Support is a must regardless with which system you go with. You will always come across an issue that requires help. That's what seals the deal!
12-20-2017, 10:51 AM
#12
Sorry, I thought the latest V-MAF+ included the Piggyback.
As my friends and I always used the Vitesse MAF in conjunction with the Piggyback, I had forgotten that your MAF was also available as a more basic, plug & play unit.
As my friends and I always used the Vitesse MAF in conjunction with the Piggyback, I had forgotten that your MAF was also available as a more basic, plug & play unit.
