Well, when Spring rolls around I should have about 3500 bucks or so. I would really like to purchase a kit like the 363hp package from Lindsey or the Vitesse stage 2. I am trying to figure out which one seems to be better. With the Lindsey package, I would be substituting the intake for the maf kit. Here's some things I don't understand. If I do that, will I still need chips? Dont they just adjust the fuel curve? Or do i need them for the raised rev limitor? (could have been a dumb question ?)Also, does anyone have the Lindsey kit out there? How do u like it? And still no one has a dyno chart for a vitesse kit on pump gas? Just interested at this point, not too serious.

 

The Lindsey numbers are made with a Cam and test pipe, which are not included. I would go with Vitesse. They make excellent numbers, and everyone seems to be really happy with the kit and the service.

I have no affiliation with any company. I dont have either kit. These are just some observations from what people have posted.

 

Does anybody have any guesses as to what stage 2 would put down at 15psi instead of 20 on race gas? It seems that no one eally has any dynos or anything on pump gas vitesse kits. Also, the car is stock right now, but I plan on full 3 inch exhaust down the road. Has anyone used the Lindsey setup or have anything similar to it?

 

MMMmmmmmm spring rolls

 

-The kokeln turbo, that comes w/ the lindey kit, isn't water jacketed. I'd be a little leary of the seals going or detonation because of excessive heat. Talk to lister "ski", he has/had the kit installed but I seem to remember him ditching the cam the same day as install because of rough running issues. Remember to add the price of the cam and test pipe to thier total to get the 363RWHP.

-The Vitesse kit is a turbo, injectors, maf (w/ pb), and chips so you'll still need to buy a WG, boost control, and test pipe to make the numbers.

-The Guru 364 kit is a year behind release so no holding your breath on that one.

I've dealt w/ the customer service end of guru and lindsey, from my experiences they have both been great. I've read enough feedback for John (Vitesse) to know hes backing his products up.

Just my opinion I'd put 3500 into suspension and brakes first and maybe get a test pipe, chips, and wastegate if you want a lil' more power. (youre going to have to buy the TP/WG w/ the kits too) That should swallow up 3500 fast hehe.

 

I can offer a bit of suggestion here. Remember though, the first thing to make sure of is that your car is ready to have a 150-170+ rwhp jump in power. If that is not the case, your throwing money away. Get the rod bearings, seals, gaskets, head refresh, head gasket(WFHG or Cometic) if needed; get all of that done first. Also do not forget exhaust systems.

The Lindsey kit is a very nice kit and Dave offers some of the best support in the business. I purchased the "kit" seperately before it was a kit. The Kokeln turbo which is oil cooled only doesn't worry me a bit. I let the car idle just a bit before turning it off and I change oil 2500-3000 miles depending on how I've been driving it. I personally would suggest not getting the cam unless you opt for an MAF which would give some fuel control,,but then you increase the price a bit. The cam is probably only good for 18-24 hp anyway. If you take the money away from the cam then the MAF becomes $700. Lindsey includeds WG, injectors, and AFPR. My best dyno on 17 psi/96 octane (not 18) has been 291/299 on a Mustang dyno - which should equate to 328/337 on a dynojet. So would the cam and 1 more psi get you 35 hp...probably.

Vitesse Stage II. Again, very nice kit - as I just helped install one a couple of weeks ago. The owner of the car is very impressed at the moment. I have been on his A** about posting his impressions but he is dragging his feet. He has put 650 miles on the car at 8-10psi and just turned it to 12 yesterday for the remainder of the 1000 miles. You have to add injectors, wastegate, and AFPR to the price of this kit for all practical purposes but I think John gives a little price break on the injectors. Johns customer service is also some of the best in the business. The SMT6 that comes with the Vitesse kit is a simple install between the DME and the engine harness, actually only one wire is cut and rewired, the rest are just spliced into. IIRC it's 7 wires. The laptop downloads and applications are very straight forward. I think Jim plans on running 93 octane up to 15-16 psi then add some race gas to the mix for higher boost levels but not really sure.

My car and Jims car both have full 3" SFR exhaust and both went through a "in the car" engine overhaul before installing these kits. This was my choice and his,,my car had 72k on it and Jims had 100k. One other thing that I believe you should look at before all of this includes your clutch - to be able to put this power to the ground. Jims was literally down to the rivets. My clutch had about 1mm left.

Both turbos require a bit of indexing to install correctly, Vitesse more than Lindsey. You will have to grind the top bolt hole mount on both turbos, because where the bolts hold on the spring retainer for the throttle return on the intake manifold hit a bit. My wife doesn't drive my car and it's more weekend warrior duty or PORSCHE club event, which is why I opted for the non-water jacket - again, just my preference to get rid of a couple of hoses, aux pump and stuff.

You can't go wrong with either kit nor the customer service. Just make sure your ready to install it and your car is ready to take it...best of luck. Check out this thread on the Vitesse install:

https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...threadid=99845

 

I'd be interested to see a test comparing the two cars at the same boost levels (preferrably about 15psi - 16psi).

Concerning the oil lubricated "only" turbo. There's nothing wrong with that. Many cars don't have water running through the turbos as well (including 911/993 turbos).

The only thing that water is going to gain you is an increased lifespan of the actual center section of the turbo. That's it. Other than that, it has zero affect on performance.

 

The lindsey kit does not include a MAF, its still uses the stock AFM. Another alternative would be a kkk 27/6 or a Garett ToE4 with a Lindsey MAF system/wideband O2 sensor for tuning and Lindsey wastegate. You need another set of chips, KLR chip is mandatory to eliminate the overboost protection. With stock injectors this should bring you to around 320 rwhp at 16 to 18 PSI and pump gas.

 

My point in saying the MAF with the LR kit was "OPT" for it. You could save on the cam,,$440(optional anyway) and if you deleted the Kokeln intake (-$710) well that is $1100 right there. That would put "a" kit at $3850,(delete Kokeln intake and add MAF) with Lindsey, probably give a little better torque too. You can sort of select different things with Lindsey and delete others.

Vitesse stage II, $2900 + inj($400) + wastegate($400) + AFPR($170)=$3870. As I stated previously I think John gives a price break on injectors if purchased from him.

The thing about "kits" if you will, is that you get support from one vendor who can help you tune your car, offer suggestions, and if something goes wrong, they are there to help. Both of these vendors in this case are great at support.

There is nothing wrong with mixing parts. You just have to have the ability to tune and the time to tune; with the support and experience of people here, that shouldn't be a problem if you opt for something else.

TonyG,,I will say that I have 320rwhp(Mustang converted to dynojet numbers),,ballpark-maybe +/- a few hp at 17psi. Maybe when Jim gets his car broken in he will hit the dyno. I do know that he has nice A/F numbers at 12 psi,, I think he said 12.4:1 yesterday on boost 6200rpm for a couple of runs, then back to cruising. BTW, nice tranny you sold him. I will probably have a new LR MAF this spring as soon as Dave sorts through the new software, might look at the Vitesse MAF+PB too....never know

 

Ski

Glad to hear the tranny worked out for him. I never heard anything one way or the other...

 

Ski, few items that are worth mentioning..

The Vitesse Kit allows you to alter timing, add water injection or boost control (controlled by the PB). Also, the Data Logging capability is very important.. It allows you to monitor the different variables and you can email me the data log file for some remote tuning.. The Vitesse kit allows you to have 2 different maps/profiles at any time. You can switch between maps/profiles with an external switch. The The PB also offers an output trigger based on 4 variables such as RPM for a shift light...

 

Am I going to need any special porsche tools if I were to go ahead with this kit install? (either kit). I think I might plan on doing a headgasket while all this would go in. Any special tools for that? Also, I've never done a headgasket before, any tips? Is it really tough or is it something i could probably do in a weekend? Im not very experienced with porsches, but I could put in IC piping, turbo, WG, exhaust etc on my honda, but it was just bolt on. I hope it's not a lot harder...?

 

Hey,,anyone out there want a Stage V Kokeln that has had both the intake/hot side extrude honed, hot side ceramic coated, has 4000 miles on it for $800? A friend of mine just emailed me and he is going up to a ball bearing turbo. This is an oil cooled only turbo, couple of mods needed to the water system, new injectors, and danno has a chip(s) for this turbo that fits very well. If your interested,,
blpski@yahoo.com

 

Depends on if you want to break the cam gear off and replace all of those seals..then you'll need one twelve pt cheesehead-can't remember the size, and a long 6mm socket hex(allen) for the cam tower, and I would recommend a flywheel lock if its your first time.
www.clarks-garage.com will give you a good idea of procedures and tools needed. The head gasket is not a hard job, as a matter of fact the PITA is getting the small 10mm stuff back on the intake manifold! There are a number of "while your in there" things to do however.

How many miles are your car? Rod bearings ever been done? What shape are your vacuum lines in? What about your hoses to the intercooler and throttle body? If these items are weak then the new boost will give you fits with leaks if they are old and dry. There are quite a few replacement items to do, if you haven't already, before hooking into some serious hp. I gathered parts for my refresh for about a year and half. I know jwl gathered parts for about 8 months for his. Careful planning will pay off in long run. When you put this much extra power in these cars, everything needs to be 100%. Take you time, plan your work and your parts, and don't forget that checkbook or Visa/Amex!!

If you'll click on the link to the thread in the earlier post you can view some pics of Jims car as we tore it down. If you want bigger ones to see email me and I'll send them to you.

 

after speaking with dave for about three months and to ski wuz up man i decided to go with the lindsey kit....i must say i am very happy with it....i did exactly what ski did and opted for the maf and cut out the inatke and the cam.......i am making probably a little more hp than ski is because i run more boost.....18 low setting and 20 high setting.....i can tell you i got the kit done in june and its now december....i love it and wouldnt go anywhere else but lindsey now for my stuff....he is great and very helpful........that being said vitesse kits are absolutely outstanding from what i hear.....they customers are very well taking care of and the kit seems to be everything john says it is and more.......i will say the lindsey kit seems to be more complete.....fyi I DIDNT INSTALL MY OWN KIT .....dave and mike did my complete install i think it took them like 2 or maybe 3 days......i dropped the car off on friday and picked it up the next friday after work.Ski was a big help in my decision to go with lindsey he had already had his kit on and said he loved it...so after talking with dave for so long and him be so willing to help and wait ...i went with lindsey.....plus he worked with me on price as well.Either is kit is great......although i dont know that john(vitesse) has his new stage 2 out or not??? and like i said no one really knows how much hp his kits put down on 16psi and pump gas............but, ski's friend will be able to help in that area when he gets his dyno'ed so.....i say wait and see what kinds of numbers his puts down.....talk to john and talk to dave then make your decision.....either way i think you will be very happy with you car.....when i picked my up and took it for my first spin i couldnt believe how powerful they car had become with so little money(fyi installation and tax.....totally everything i spent 4k with dave on that trip)

goodluck and happy boosting