Robby

I am looking for 27mm (OR 28mm- BOTH effective, of course)- they have been discontinued- I've checked w/several places- PErformance Prods, Paragon, Powerhaus, Vertex, Lindsey, & several others- WINDWARD says they have them, but, they are kind of steep & I don't know if I trust them... ANY ideas on places that MIGHT have stocked them & could possibly STILL have a few sets laying around?

Has an ANYONE here ever HAD a car with (or driven a car with, or even RIDDEN IN a car with) hollow T-bars? Anyone know ANYTHING about them, in comparison to solids? ANY input on them whatsoever???

Thanks a lot,

87Porsche951

www.performanceproducts.com

They have a catalog which has solid and hallow weltmeister torsion bars. Im sure you can order than from there site too. I don't know of anybody else who sells torsons tubes.

horsepowerfarm

Robby,

Other than being able to say you have "gun drilled" torsion bars (everybody thinks they are cool), I could never tell the difference between solid and hollow t. bars (of equivelant spring rates).

My experience is with 911s ('71 E, '81 Turbo, and '87 Carrera) and hell they all had them at all four corners. If I understand, the reason I spent the extra $ was really to reduce weight. I have a set of 31mm "gun drilled" '87-'89 Carrera torsion bars for sale on the 911 parts board, please excuse the shameless plug.

My advise is pocket the extra bucks and spend them on some regular maintenance you have neglected, unless of course your running GT3-R, then you're going to need alot more than hollow bars.

Robby

Winslow- looks like I'm going to HAVE to buy solid, since no one HAS hollow- also, gun drilled are supposed to be different from the later Wetlmester, although people evidently use the terms interchangeabley- not sure about this as far as technical dif was concerned, except that earlier ones were supposed to have some probs b/c of inner areas not being smooth- having some sort of edge or something & causing breakage & non linear rates, etc... again, not sure, but was told by a reliable source.. doesn't reallly matter anyway, since I can't find EITHER...


'87- thanks, but, you didn't read my post did you? I've tried PP & all the others listed- they do NOT STOCK them- the bars are NOT MADE anymore- it's a PITA, but, evidently, NO ONE EVER stocked them b/c otherwise, there would HAVE to be SOME left SOMEWHERE....

It just REALLY PISSES me off, b/c I KNOW just as soon as I get the other's on, SOMEONE will find this thread or something & say "I know a place that has some..." & I'll already have the job done & I'm not ABOUT to even CONSIDER removing the T-bars JUST to replace w/hollows alone... The job is such a bitch, that I want to get the best & even if it IS just the weight reduction, then, cool- it's usually ~$100 dif... $100/10lbs (total)- $10/1lb doesn't sound too bad... MUCH better percentage than buying good streetable seats- Momo Street Racers: ~$1400, removes ~50lbs (total), so, that's pushing $30/1lb, &, SEATS are usually the FIRST thing mentioned when reducing the weight of these cars...

David Floyd

Robby,

www.racersedge-inc.com I hear they are great with coilovers but they might be able to give some help with t-bars.

Have you talked to kelsean ? How is his engine project ?

Bri Bro

Did you call German Parts and Restoration? I purchased a set of hollow bars from them about a year ago (Sway-a-Way PowerBarz). The problem I had with hollow was that they didn't carry the size I wanted. The ones they could get had too high an effective rate and I decided to returned them. I finally installed a set of solid bars and saved money to boot.

Matt H

Not hollow (at least they dont appear to be but a hell of a deal)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=42609
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Mike S

I used to have some 28mm hollow sway-a-way torsion bars on my old 87 944 that I sold. I couldn't tell the difference other than that they were just a bit less stiff than solid ones on a friends car that also had 28's.

horsepowerfarm

Robby,

I like your attitude....if its a big job get the best, right on!
I have never replaced torsion bars on a 944 and I know its hard compared to a 911. Good luck in your search and I will ask some of my buddies if they have any hollow bars.

Robby

oK FIRST of all, WINSLOW- what the hell? You're sig? Nice list, but a 2.8L A4 SUPERCHARGED? THAT sounds interesting- any details??? IF you DO find any hollows, please let me know- I'm only going to give it another day or so though- all my other stuff's here & I'm ready to put it all on...

Mike S- I assume this is the case- good to hear they didn't feel BAD, as Windward has stated...

Matt H- $80 is the opening bid, I think, NOT the "Buy Now" price, BUT, I'll bet those go for a pretty cheap price, UNLESS, there are a LOT of 944 people out there right now that just HAPPEN to want 27mm T-bars... I MIGHT just bid on those nearer to the deadline, as it LOOKS like I'm SOL on the hollows...

beab951- I'll give those places a call- thanks for the ideas...AND, I know EXACTLY what you mean- evidently, the hollow's ARE still available in sizes >30mm (effective)- a little stiff for what I'm doing...

David- as it turns out, Racer's Edge is HERE in Knoxville I was BLOWN away! Had my car for 4yrs & had NO FU**ING IDEA! Found out ~1 month ago. I ordered the Ledas from Karl- HE is the one who informed me that Sway Away & the other place that makes the hollows, are not making them anymore in smaller streetable sizes. He's looked a few places for me- all of his normal channels- & I've tried about all I can think of- he had saaid my only recourse was to find a place that STILL had some in stock- wouldn't be TOO hard to do, IF ANY of these places had ever stocked them to begin with- doesn't look like many did.... WINDWARD says they have them, BUT, they say REALLY BAD things about them- I'm wondering if they don't havge earlier gun-drilled ones that I've also been informed might have been sub-par- not sure, b ut, in short, I'm just not sure I trust Windward & am scared to order from them- I HATE it, but it looks like I'm either going to have to trust them & try or just go w/solid... anyway....Kelly got his engine running- haven't seen him, but have talked w/him- he WAS running his boost really low, trying to be gentle for a break-in period, but, I'm not sure that was a good idea- drving gently WAS, BUT, the chips (Danno's) were SUPPOSED to be burned for a certain boost level as far as A:F was concerned- I think 17psi, but might have been 15... Anyway, he's having a little vaccum prob or something- he THINKS it's the J-boot, but I'm not sure if that's confirmed or not... How is YOUR car doing? How many miles have you got on it & ARE you still happy w/the balance shafts removed? Do you notice anything at ALL as far as that's concerned?

Thanks,

TonyG

Robby

Robby

Why are you so obsessed with a hollow torsion bar? The difference is in the weight, and it's not much.

That said... you have a LONG way to before those couple of pounds (together) will do anything for you.

I'd be more concerned with getting the proper spring rate...

In fact... I'd dump the torsion bars... and go straight to coil overs... a much better solution for many reasons.

TonyG

Robby

I'm not obssessed- I just don't want to go through the trouble w/out getting the best- in this case, lightest- I find it extremely odd that everyone TALKS about losing weight, but then chuckles at the idea of saving any- doesn't make sense- many people wont think twice about yanking an AC or going to manual steering in a STREET car, but, when given a chance to shave ~10lbs (probably all they will save, both sides combined), w/out changing ANYTHING else- not losing ANY creature comforts or options, or having to comprimise ANYTHING, or even hampering ride quality (actually, more than likely HELPING ride quality- less susp weight always helps, albeit minimally, but, many people have stated they think the ride quality is better w/them...)- it's like removing a magic 10lbs- I know I wont FEEL it- not by itself anyway, but, I've done a few nickle & dime things & honestly believe I can get my car to ~2950lbs (~210lbs lighter than stock) w/out hurting anything about it or losing ANYTHING that I actually like- I KNOW I'll be able to get below 3000 anyway. Even then, ~160lbs isn't much, BUT, when you think about it, it's more than 5% of the total weight of the car & it HELPS EVERYTHING- acceleration, deceleration, handling, gas mileage, longevity of parts (less wear & tear), & especially ride quality (when taken from the right places). Anyway, no big deal- as I said above- I'm just trying to exhaust ALL possibilities BEFORE I go w/solid- I KNOW I'll find some as soon as I give up & install solids- I'm almost there- trying to look at the bright side- an extra $100 I'll have

BTW- Karl was opposed to the idea of me going full coil-overs- he said to either go T-bars or helpers- helpers will PROBABLY require reindexing anyway so I think I'll stick w/just T-bars- besides, then I would be GAINING weight, NOT reducing...

Hey- not sure if you got the message or not, but, did you decide on the wheels? I'm ready whenever you are....

Matt H

How would you gain? You would lose the stock torsion bars for a spring perch and a spring. There is no way those items weigh as much as the stock t-bars.

There is no reserve (or it would say reserve not met) so unless there are a bunch of people trying to snipe you should get them for 80 bucks. What does a set usually run?
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TonyG

If you went to a coil over, you would be probably loosing more weight than if you used a hollow torsion bar and conventional shock.

Further... the difference between a hollow bar and a solid bar can't be more than 2lbs each (at most). Pretty trivial...

And deleting the a/c is considerably more than 10lbs. The a/c compressor alone probably weighs 15-20lbs. Then the a/c condensor, the a/c lines, the a/c evaporator, a lighter a/c drop bracket (which also allows a much larger turbo to be installed BTW), and the elimination of the a/c condensor also helps cooling considerably by removing it from the front of the radiator, and more....

You can't compare these two things... apples and oranges.

And I would love to hear why coil over conversions are not as good as a torsion bar/conventional shock. This should be interesting.

Did I mention that you can change ride heights in minutes with coil overs.. or that you can change your rear spring rates in less than an hour with coil overs? (without having to have the car realigned)

Once you have a full coil over solution... you'll never go back. They blow the factory stuff out of the water...


If you really want to loose weight without deleting things... you better get out the carbon fiber/glass catalog. Be prepared to spend some money.


Also... I went to manual steering not for weight savings... I did it for road feedback/steering feel on the track.



TonyG

keith

Tony, its actually a lot more than 2 pounds.