Racing at Sears Point (Sonoma Raceway) Incar video
#16
Thanks Guys! Great to be back! anyone have experience with the steering rack bushings i HAVE to change before my next race at the end of July? Ive heard the nylon bushings are really the way to go for a race car. it has been so sloppy for a long time, and just assumed it was old technology.......when i moved that steering rack around like it wasnt even bolted in, it made sense why my steering is so non-sensitive!
I have always used aluminum bushings/mounts in a race car.
#17
thanks
#18
thanks!
Last I knew this is a different chassis different vin # , different engine short block, different trans axle but yes it is RED ! Good to have you back and as for the "raced same car for 20 years."...I think you are on car three...
Did enjoy the video...you did a good job blocking the faster cars behind you .....
Did enjoy the video...you did a good job blocking the faster cars behind you .....
Good to be back Jim.. thanks!
As far as the holbet car, yes, the chassis was changed......earlier, we changed the short block. before that , the cams and transmission (but still can fix the trans and put back) broke and were replaced.... alternator updated after failure, water pumps changed....... But, the heads, all the brains, (ECU) , the intake, all hoses, fluid mounts to the engine, MAF, rear suspension (spindles, cross members etc) are all from the original holbert car. some in racing would still call it the original, but i tend to lean to the "X-Holbert" classification.
as far as "same car being raced".... depending on the above and your definition of "same car". Ive been racing since 1998. (about 20 years) all with the 928, rarely missing a season race weekend. sure, chassis. my 84, the holbert and the re-tub. But that was 3 years, 8 years, and another 8 years for the current racer!
Mark --
Welcome back to the 928 forum.
The aluminum steering rack bushings are probably the best option for your dedicated race car. The Delrin bushings are great option for road cars, but can cold-flow slightly under extreme pressure. The original bushings suffer when exposed to oil/atf and extreme heat from unshielded headers.
Welcome back to the 928 forum.
The aluminum steering rack bushings are probably the best option for your dedicated race car. The Delrin bushings are great option for road cars, but can cold-flow slightly under extreme pressure. The original bushings suffer when exposed to oil/atf and extreme heat from unshielded headers.
#22
hahaha!! thats funny . STILL my kids talk about the 928 with all the laser beams and the verbiage..... so funny..... thanks!
thanks! still fun making them.. cant get enough of that car and its sounds!
Thanks...im doing research now. as always, i want a simple solution, but want to make sure i do it somewhat right!
thanks! still fun making them.. cant get enough of that car and its sounds!
Thanks...im doing research now. as always, i want a simple solution, but want to make sure i do it somewhat right!
#23
Ex_ Holbert car ???
By your logic then there are now two cars....the wrecked chassis 1986 moded to look like an S-4 and the replacement car.
If your current car was to get stolen and recovered by the CHP...If you showed up with the title for the original 1986 you would never get the car or the engine back ......all the wrong serial numbers !! And yes converted street cars all should have titles....
And are you really running 30 year old original hoses ??? That makes you a risk to yourself and others.
If your current car was to get stolen and recovered by the CHP...If you showed up with the title for the original 1986 you would never get the car or the engine back ......all the wrong serial numbers !! And yes converted street cars all should have titles....
And are you really running 30 year old original hoses ??? That makes you a risk to yourself and others.
#24
Chronic Tool Dropper
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Choices are aluminum (recommended) or Delrin. Delrin is almost as slippery as Teflon but has much better cold-flow capability. There's a small amount of isolation/dampening in them. The aluminum... none. Aluminum is a much better choice for your application. Cost difference is none. Get the right ones.
#25
Chronic Tool Dropper
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ha ha ha. i know.... it like the show "LOST". but it changes when i go to Laguna.
thanks!
Thats the interesting thing about race cars.........where to most draw the line about what is really the same race car, or what is just a relative? many of the historic race cars have been re-tubb'ed. then, throughout their lives,engines area rebuilt, transmissions are changed out, heads are exchanged, ecu's swapped.... in the end, i wonder how many original parts ever are on the claimed " historic " race cars... a body panel here and there?
Good to be back Jim.. thanks!
As far as the holbet car, yes, the chassis was changed......earlier, we changed the short block. before that , the cams and transmission (but still can fix the trans and put back) broke and were replaced.... alternator updated after failure, water pumps changed....... But, the heads, all the brains, (ECU) , the intake, all hoses, fluid mounts to the engine, MAF, rear suspension (spindles, cross members etc) are all from the original holbert car. some in racing would still call it the original, but i tend to lean to the "X-Holbert" classification.
as far as "same car being raced".... depending on the above and your definition of "same car". Ive been racing since 1998. (about 20 years) all with the 928, rarely missing a season race weekend. sure, chassis. my 84, the holbert and the re-tub. But that was 3 years, 8 years, and another 8 years for the current racer!
Thanks Bob! that doesnt sound good for the delrin.. i seemed to remember replacing the bushings many years ago ..... where do you get the aluminum? can you give me a refresher on replacement. alll ive seen (tough to find any thing on my searches) is that you need to drop the rock.. but if the bushings are totally blown out, like mine are (no seemingly visible attachment) will they come out without the rack removed? just remove that plate and pull them out... putting the new ones in, from the Pirtle site, just looks like you bang them in with a block of wood. thoughts?
thanks!
Thats the interesting thing about race cars.........where to most draw the line about what is really the same race car, or what is just a relative? many of the historic race cars have been re-tubb'ed. then, throughout their lives,engines area rebuilt, transmissions are changed out, heads are exchanged, ecu's swapped.... in the end, i wonder how many original parts ever are on the claimed " historic " race cars... a body panel here and there?
Good to be back Jim.. thanks!
As far as the holbet car, yes, the chassis was changed......earlier, we changed the short block. before that , the cams and transmission (but still can fix the trans and put back) broke and were replaced.... alternator updated after failure, water pumps changed....... But, the heads, all the brains, (ECU) , the intake, all hoses, fluid mounts to the engine, MAF, rear suspension (spindles, cross members etc) are all from the original holbert car. some in racing would still call it the original, but i tend to lean to the "X-Holbert" classification.
as far as "same car being raced".... depending on the above and your definition of "same car". Ive been racing since 1998. (about 20 years) all with the 928, rarely missing a season race weekend. sure, chassis. my 84, the holbert and the re-tub. But that was 3 years, 8 years, and another 8 years for the current racer!
Thanks Bob! that doesnt sound good for the delrin.. i seemed to remember replacing the bushings many years ago ..... where do you get the aluminum? can you give me a refresher on replacement. alll ive seen (tough to find any thing on my searches) is that you need to drop the rock.. but if the bushings are totally blown out, like mine are (no seemingly visible attachment) will they come out without the rack removed? just remove that plate and pull them out... putting the new ones in, from the Pirtle site, just looks like you bang them in with a block of wood. thoughts?
I think that transferring the rear suspension from the Holbert car does not make the replacement car 'the Holbert Car" or even the "X-Holbert car". That designation belongs with the Holbert car. The one you are driving now is the Kibort car, and sort of inherits your race history.
The aluminum bushings: Come from Roger or Carl. Mark & Tom may have them but I can't guarantee. Phone call??
To change them, the rack needs to be unbolted out of the cavity in the crossmember. Untie the electrical harness from the hoses so you can move the rack down. the original bushings are metal with rubber sandwiched between. You'll be able to push the rotted rubber out with the inner sleeve. Then the outer sleeve needs to be twisted, chiseled, distorted and extracted. I use a small chisel to roll the mushroomed ends of the outer sleeve, then continue so it collapses slightly in the hole. Once it's collapsed, you can grab it with good pliers to twist it smaller then pull it out. The new bushings are a zero-interference fit in the rack ears. Push the rack back up so the bolts are through the bushings and the ears, then the bottom plate, then the nuts and the bolt.
Look carefully at the power steering hoses. If you truly have Holbert hoses in there from 30 years ago, replace them (and the banjo washers) now. A leak there equals a fire when they spray on hot headers. A leak there also makes the track incredibly slippery. The old hoses can usually be rebuilt at a hydraulic hose shop like Pirtek. Just make sure the fittings are clocked correctly. Add some heat sheathing down by the headers WYAIT.
#27
I think that transferring the rear suspension from the Holbert car does not make the replacement car 'the Holbert Car" or even the "X-Holbert car". That designation belongs with the Holbert car. The one you are driving now is the Kibort car, and sort of inherits your race history.
The aluminum bushings: Come from Roger or Carl. Mark & Tom may have them but I can't guarantee. Phone call??
To change them, the rack needs to be unbolted out of the cavity in the crossmember. Untie the electrical harness from the hoses so you can move the rack down. the original bushings are metal with rubber sandwiched between. You'll be able to push the rotted rubber out with the inner sleeve. Then the outer sleeve needs to be twisted, chiseled, distorted and extracted. I use a small chisel to roll the mushroomed ends of the outer sleeve, then continue so it collapses slightly in the hole. Once it's collapsed, you can grab it with good pliers to twist it smaller then pull it out. The new bushings are a zero-interference fit in the rack ears. Push the rack back up so the bolts are through the bushings and the ears, then the bottom plate, then the nuts and the bolt.
Look carefully at the power steering hoses. If you truly have Holbert hoses in there from 30 years ago, replace them (and the banjo washers) now. A leak there equals a fire when they spray on hot headers. A leak there also makes the track incredibly slippery. The old hoses can usually be rebuilt at a hydraulic hose shop like Pirtek. Just make sure the fittings are clocked correctly. Add some heat sheathing down by the headers WYAIT.
The aluminum bushings: Come from Roger or Carl. Mark & Tom may have them but I can't guarantee. Phone call??
To change them, the rack needs to be unbolted out of the cavity in the crossmember. Untie the electrical harness from the hoses so you can move the rack down. the original bushings are metal with rubber sandwiched between. You'll be able to push the rotted rubber out with the inner sleeve. Then the outer sleeve needs to be twisted, chiseled, distorted and extracted. I use a small chisel to roll the mushroomed ends of the outer sleeve, then continue so it collapses slightly in the hole. Once it's collapsed, you can grab it with good pliers to twist it smaller then pull it out. The new bushings are a zero-interference fit in the rack ears. Push the rack back up so the bolts are through the bushings and the ears, then the bottom plate, then the nuts and the bolt.
Look carefully at the power steering hoses. If you truly have Holbert hoses in there from 30 years ago, replace them (and the banjo washers) now. A leak there equals a fire when they spray on hot headers. A leak there also makes the track incredibly slippery. The old hoses can usually be rebuilt at a hydraulic hose shop like Pirtek. Just make sure the fittings are clocked correctly. Add some heat sheathing down by the headers WYAIT.
Mark--
Choices are aluminum (recommended) or Delrin. Delrin is almost as slippery as Teflon but has much better cold-flow capability. There's a small amount of isolation/dampening in them. The aluminum... none. Aluminum is a much better choice for your application. Cost difference is none. Get the right ones.
Choices are aluminum (recommended) or Delrin. Delrin is almost as slippery as Teflon but has much better cold-flow capability. There's a small amount of isolation/dampening in them. The aluminum... none. Aluminum is a much better choice for your application. Cost difference is none. Get the right ones.
By your logic then there are now two cars....the wrecked chassis 1986 moded to look like an S-4 and the replacement car.
If your current car was to get stolen and recovered by the CHP...If you showed up with the title for the original 1986 you would never get the car or the engine back ......all the wrong serial numbers !! And yes converted street cars all should have titles....
And are you really running 30 year old original hoses ??? That makes you a risk to yourself and others.
If your current car was to get stolen and recovered by the CHP...If you showed up with the title for the original 1986 you would never get the car or the engine back ......all the wrong serial numbers !! And yes converted street cars all should have titles....
And are you really running 30 year old original hoses ??? That makes you a risk to yourself and others.
Now, no, you know as welll as i do , hoses dont last that long, so all rubber hoses were replaced, and a few times in between. ( i had that one expode at the SCCA Runoffs at laguna when i pulled in from qualifying . opened the hood and it was like an M80 water bomb went off. i was referring to the customized engine hose inlets to the engine. ( intake, water and oil, hose mounts, not actual hoses) but all the breather lines are 30years old, as well as the maf and maf adapter
#28
Chronic Tool Dropper
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Mark --
The aluminum mounts are as easy to install as the Delrin. And, interesting as any "damping" from the Delrin might be, the aluminum will do a better job for you. The bushings are sandwiched between the rack and the crossmember, rack and the bottom plate, to keep the rack located vertically. The early "fix" for the originals in race cars was to put a few flat washers in there with the rubber parts, so the rack would be clamped tight vertically. Thanks to the hard angles that the tie rods see in cars like yours that are way below spec ride height, the small changes in the rack's vertical position translate into toe change and less precise steering. Think of the aluminum bushings as a step up from stacks of washers, as the aluminum bushings do a much better job of locating the rack laterally too. The bolts fit snug in either bushing. And again, the Delrin has some cold-flow characteristics under higher pressures, something the aluminum doesn't. Go With The Aluminum. They are made specifically for your application.
The aluminum mounts are as easy to install as the Delrin. And, interesting as any "damping" from the Delrin might be, the aluminum will do a better job for you. The bushings are sandwiched between the rack and the crossmember, rack and the bottom plate, to keep the rack located vertically. The early "fix" for the originals in race cars was to put a few flat washers in there with the rubber parts, so the rack would be clamped tight vertically. Thanks to the hard angles that the tie rods see in cars like yours that are way below spec ride height, the small changes in the rack's vertical position translate into toe change and less precise steering. Think of the aluminum bushings as a step up from stacks of washers, as the aluminum bushings do a much better job of locating the rack laterally too. The bolts fit snug in either bushing. And again, the Delrin has some cold-flow characteristics under higher pressures, something the aluminum doesn't. Go With The Aluminum. They are made specifically for your application.
#29
those are some great points Bob, thanks!
i do remember putting this "cone" washer in for a temporary fix, just on one of the blown out bushings about 10 years ago.. what a difference that was, and t was only 1 of them! i was just concerned with the shock load being applied directly to the old steering rack. I was always thinking the rubber made it a little easier on the rack itself.
thanks again for the help and the installation tips! got 2 weeks to get'er done.
Mark
i do remember putting this "cone" washer in for a temporary fix, just on one of the blown out bushings about 10 years ago.. what a difference that was, and t was only 1 of them! i was just concerned with the shock load being applied directly to the old steering rack. I was always thinking the rubber made it a little easier on the rack itself.
thanks again for the help and the installation tips! got 2 weeks to get'er done.
Mark
Mark --
The aluminum mounts are as easy to install as the Delrin. And, interesting as any "damping" from the Delrin might be, the aluminum will do a better job for you. The bushings are sandwiched between the rack and the crossmember, rack and the bottom plate, to keep the rack located vertically. The early "fix" for the originals in race cars was to put a few flat washers in there with the rubber parts, so the rack would be clamped tight vertically. Thanks to the hard angles that the tie rods see in cars like yours that are way below spec ride height, the small changes in the rack's vertical position translate into toe change and less precise steering. Think of the aluminum bushings as a step up from stacks of washers, as the aluminum bushings do a much better job of locating the rack laterally too. The bolts fit snug in either bushing. And again, the Delrin has some cold-flow characteristics under higher pressures, something the aluminum doesn't. Go With The Aluminum. They are made specifically for your application.
The aluminum mounts are as easy to install as the Delrin. And, interesting as any "damping" from the Delrin might be, the aluminum will do a better job for you. The bushings are sandwiched between the rack and the crossmember, rack and the bottom plate, to keep the rack located vertically. The early "fix" for the originals in race cars was to put a few flat washers in there with the rubber parts, so the rack would be clamped tight vertically. Thanks to the hard angles that the tie rods see in cars like yours that are way below spec ride height, the small changes in the rack's vertical position translate into toe change and less precise steering. Think of the aluminum bushings as a step up from stacks of washers, as the aluminum bushings do a much better job of locating the rack laterally too. The bolts fit snug in either bushing. And again, the Delrin has some cold-flow characteristics under higher pressures, something the aluminum doesn't. Go With The Aluminum. They are made specifically for your application.