Tom's Tilo big bird, Don Hanson's car and Mark Anderson's car...
11-21-2003, 03:30 PM
#16
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It all depends on your definition of faster 
210 mph still $#%@ fast in a street car.
Lets do a little Kibortian bench racing and look at some "facts":
Mark A has the most track time in a 928, and maybe the most racing time of any 928 driver...How about 2000-3000 hours racing, and another 500 in go-carts?? His 928 weighs about 2500 lbs ahs 500 rwhp..If I am wrong on this let me know...
Maybe David Lloyd is second in track time, between corvettes and 928, maybe 1000 hours, 928 weighs about 2700 lbs, has about 300 rwhp...If I am wrong on this let me know...
Mark Kibort is third, with maybe 1000 hours, car weighs about 2600 lbs, has about 330 rwhp....If I am wrong on this let me know...
Don with about 500-1000 hours, car weighs about 2900, has about 440 rwhp...If I am wrong on this let me know...
Marc (yea, me) with about 100 -200 hrs, 928 weighs about 2800 and has 500 rwhp (with stock manifold... )....If I am wrong on this let me know...
Hmm, who do you think is on first? Duh.
If you want to know whose 928 is fastest "on a specific track", that is a different task than knowing who is the fastest driver...that is too a different task....ahh, test. Dont try to compare apples to oranges, or sub 5 liter.
Anyways, have fun with this one...
Road America..hmmmm.tempting, even for a rookie like me.
Marc
DEVEK
210 mph still $#%@ fast in a street car.Lets do a little Kibortian bench racing and look at some "facts":
Mark A has the most track time in a 928, and maybe the most racing time of any 928 driver...How about 2000-3000 hours racing, and another 500 in go-carts?? His 928 weighs about 2500 lbs ahs 500 rwhp..If I am wrong on this let me know...
Maybe David Lloyd is second in track time, between corvettes and 928, maybe 1000 hours, 928 weighs about 2700 lbs, has about 300 rwhp...If I am wrong on this let me know...
Mark Kibort is third, with maybe 1000 hours, car weighs about 2600 lbs, has about 330 rwhp....If I am wrong on this let me know...
Don with about 500-1000 hours, car weighs about 2900, has about 440 rwhp...If I am wrong on this let me know...
Marc (yea, me) with about 100 -200 hrs, 928 weighs about 2800 and has 500 rwhp (with stock manifold...
)....If I am wrong on this let me know...Hmm, who do you think is on first? Duh.
If you want to know whose 928 is fastest "on a specific track", that is a different task than knowing who is the fastest driver...that is too a different task....ahh, test. Dont try to compare apples to oranges, or sub 5 liter.
Anyways, have fun with this one...
Road America..hmmmm.tempting, even for a rookie like me.
Marc
DEVEK
11-21-2003, 03:30 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
It all depends on your definition of faster 210 mph still $#%@ fast in a street car.
Lets do a little Kibortian bench racing and look at some "facts":
Mark A has the most track time in a 928, and maybe the most racing time of any 928 driver...How about 2000-3000 hours racing, and another 500 in go-carts?? His 928 weighs about 2500 lbs ahs 500 rwhp..If I am wrong on this let me know...
Maybe David Lloyd is second in track time, between corvettes and 928, maybe 1000 hours, 928 weighs about 2700 lbs, has about 300 rwhp...If I am wrong on this let me know...
Mark Kibort is third, with maybe 1000 hours, car weighs about 2600 lbs, has about 330 rwhp....If I am wrong on this let me know...
Don with about 500-1000 hours, car weighs about 2900, has about 440 rwhp...If I am wrong on this let me know...
Marc (yea, me) with about 100 -200 hrs, 928 weighs about 2800 and has 500 rwhp (with stock manifold... )....If I am wrong on this let me know...
Hmm, who do you think is on first? Duh.
If you want to know whose 928 is fastest "on a specific track", that is a different task than knowing who is the fastest driver...that is too a different task....ahh, test. Dont try to compare apples to oranges, or sub 5 liter.
Anyways, have fun with this one...
Road America..hmmmm.tempting, even for a rookie like me.
Marc
DEVEK
210 mph still $#%@ fast in a street car.Lets do a little Kibortian bench racing and look at some "facts":
Mark A has the most track time in a 928, and maybe the most racing time of any 928 driver...How about 2000-3000 hours racing, and another 500 in go-carts?? His 928 weighs about 2500 lbs ahs 500 rwhp..If I am wrong on this let me know...
Maybe David Lloyd is second in track time, between corvettes and 928, maybe 1000 hours, 928 weighs about 2700 lbs, has about 300 rwhp...If I am wrong on this let me know...
Mark Kibort is third, with maybe 1000 hours, car weighs about 2600 lbs, has about 330 rwhp....If I am wrong on this let me know...
Don with about 500-1000 hours, car weighs about 2900, has about 440 rwhp...If I am wrong on this let me know...
Marc (yea, me) with about 100 -200 hrs, 928 weighs about 2800 and has 500 rwhp (with stock manifold...
)....If I am wrong on this let me know...Hmm, who do you think is on first? Duh.
If you want to know whose 928 is fastest "on a specific track", that is a different task than knowing who is the fastest driver...that is too a different task....ahh, test. Dont try to compare apples to oranges, or sub 5 liter.
Anyways, have fun with this one...
Road America..hmmmm.tempting, even for a rookie like me.
Marc
DEVEK
11-21-2003, 03:30 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
It all depends on your definition of faster 210 mph still $#%@ fast in a street car.
Lets do a little Kibortian bench racing and look at some "facts":
Mark A has the most track time in a 928, and maybe the most racing time of any 928 driver...How about 2000-3000 hours racing, and another 500 in go-carts?? His 928 weighs about 2500 lbs ahs 500 rwhp..If I am wrong on this let me know...
Maybe David Lloyd is second in track time, between corvettes and 928, maybe 1000 hours, 928 weighs about 2700 lbs, has about 300 rwhp...If I am wrong on this let me know...
Mark Kibort is third, with maybe 1000 hours, car weighs about 2600 lbs, has about 330 rwhp....If I am wrong on this let me know...
Don with about 500-1000 hours, car weighs about 2900, has about 440 rwhp...If I am wrong on this let me know...
Marc (yea, me) with about 100 -200 hrs, 928 weighs about 2800 and has 500 rwhp (with stock manifold... )....If I am wrong on this let me know...
Hmm, who do you think is on first? Duh.
If you want to know whose 928 is fastest "on a specific track", that is a different task than knowing who is the fastest driver...that is too a different task....ahh, test. Dont try to compare apples to oranges, or sub 5 liter.
Anyways, have fun with this one...
Road America..hmmmm.tempting, even for a rookie like me.
Marc
DEVEK
210 mph still $#%@ fast in a street car.Lets do a little Kibortian bench racing and look at some "facts":
Mark A has the most track time in a 928, and maybe the most racing time of any 928 driver...How about 2000-3000 hours racing, and another 500 in go-carts?? His 928 weighs about 2500 lbs ahs 500 rwhp..If I am wrong on this let me know...
Maybe David Lloyd is second in track time, between corvettes and 928, maybe 1000 hours, 928 weighs about 2700 lbs, has about 300 rwhp...If I am wrong on this let me know...
Mark Kibort is third, with maybe 1000 hours, car weighs about 2600 lbs, has about 330 rwhp....If I am wrong on this let me know...
Don with about 500-1000 hours, car weighs about 2900, has about 440 rwhp...If I am wrong on this let me know...
Marc (yea, me) with about 100 -200 hrs, 928 weighs about 2800 and has 500 rwhp (with stock manifold...
)....If I am wrong on this let me know...Hmm, who do you think is on first? Duh.
If you want to know whose 928 is fastest "on a specific track", that is a different task than knowing who is the fastest driver...that is too a different task....ahh, test. Dont try to compare apples to oranges, or sub 5 liter.
Anyways, have fun with this one...
Road America..hmmmm.tempting, even for a rookie like me.
Marc
DEVEK
11-21-2003, 03:52 PM
#20
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MarkA...
Ever thought about trailering your racecar to an openroad event?
It has all the required safety equipment already.
All it would need, is to do some minor aerodynamic improvements, and I would guess
you would see similar 200+ MPH speeds...
Ever thought about trailering your racecar to an openroad event?
It has all the required safety equipment already.
All it would need, is to do some minor aerodynamic improvements, and I would guess
you would see similar 200+ MPH speeds...
11-21-2003, 04:15 PM
#21
The Parts Whisperer
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bc,
I did the first 2 Silver State open road races. If memory serves me we finished 4th overall with an average speed of 171 over 90 miles. I did not find them all that challenging or rewarding and I thought is was not very safe. Not taking away anything from those that enjoy it, just not my cup of tea. I have been tempted to go out to the dry lake bed and do 200+ just to do it.
I did the first 2 Silver State open road races. If memory serves me we finished 4th overall with an average speed of 171 over 90 miles. I did not find them all that challenging or rewarding and I thought is was not very safe. Not taking away anything from those that enjoy it, just not my cup of tea. I have been tempted to go out to the dry lake bed and do 200+ just to do it.
11-21-2003, 04:26 PM
#22
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Marc your finger is stuttering ........ you are correct you have driven a 928 faster in a straight line than anyone else has cared to do . That makes you faster from point A to point B , as long as it is in a straight line ......... point A to point A (start / finish ) may be quite another matter . Your comments about track time have only limited validity .......all the practice in the world will not make a pig fly . There is perhaps no better example than Richard Petty's son been racing NASCAR for many , many years ....best equipment , good team ......average driver AT BEST , nice guy no talent . Petty's grandson in just a few short years before his unfortunate death had the talent which when given the opportunity and the training did very well . Give me 2000 hours of Opera lessons and I still will not be singing at the Met ............ I can how ever scream really loud !
11-21-2003, 04:27 PM
#23
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I'm sure Tim and I could put together one hell of a day cruise through the Kettle Moraine with all the street cars.
Remember, Road America was modeled after actual turns and sections from the area, some very fun driving roads. Maybe even the Minnesota and Chicago gang can submit their favorite routes.
About hotel's. Sheboygan, Plymouth, and Sheboygan Falls are within 10-15 minutes of the track. Fond Du Lac and Manitowoc about 30 minutes, Green Bay 45-60 minutes away. Even Milwaukee isn't much farther if you stay to the north side.
If anybody would be interested in renting a cottage on Elkhart Lake or Crystal Lake (actually closer to the track than Elkhart Lake) let me know. I have some friends in Real Estate in that area that would know of any available.
Remember, Road America was modeled after actual turns and sections from the area, some very fun driving roads. Maybe even the Minnesota and Chicago gang can submit their favorite routes.
About hotel's. Sheboygan, Plymouth, and Sheboygan Falls are within 10-15 minutes of the track. Fond Du Lac and Manitowoc about 30 minutes, Green Bay 45-60 minutes away. Even Milwaukee isn't much farther if you stay to the north side.
If anybody would be interested in renting a cottage on Elkhart Lake or Crystal Lake (actually closer to the track than Elkhart Lake) let me know. I have some friends in Real Estate in that area that would know of any available.
11-21-2003, 06:51 PM
#24
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I am glad to read there is talk of another exceptional 928 gathering at RA! Next year, I will be there, definitely! I probably will take the boat from Ludington, Mi to Manitowoc (have always wanted to do that).
I also agree this could be a great promotional event for our marque, and esp the racers. I am much looking forward to seeing the 928 big dogs on the track. Though, I have little opinion about which one is faster..... because I know I am. Na Na
I also agree this could be a great promotional event for our marque, and esp the racers. I am much looking forward to seeing the 928 big dogs on the track. Though, I have little opinion about which one is faster..... because I know I am. Na Na
11-21-2003, 08:31 PM
#26
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Give me 2000 hours of Opera lessons and I still will not be singing at the Met
By the way, here is me beating Mark at the Road America finish line (ignore the flag)
You cannot believe have fast he passed me!!!!!!
11-21-2003, 08:47 PM
#27
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Surely you do not mean he lagged back behind you a bit then anticipating the green flag at the start finish built up speed to pass you just after the start finish line under the green flag ........that does not seem fair ....legal but not fair ! Must be more to this than just holding down the "loud pedal" . I hope you got to see Mark working the traffic the quickness with which he picks his line and commits to the pass is quite something .
11-21-2003, 09:02 PM
#29
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Marc,
there were several years where I was on the track 3x per month. Don, had a lot of those months this year, and part of last year, but remember its not only practice, its perfect practice. 120 track days, all with about 1hour of track time each on average. if thats the measure, im probably more like 120hours not 1000 hours. but I have been in 5 speed GT pro races! (and had fun, and did it cheaper, shared sandwitches and tires with mark anderson , and beat some big money guys, etc yada yada , ha ha ha)
I have to respond with some FACTS. (and a little bench racing)
my times at Laguna and Sears are 2 seconds faster than Anderson (on street toyo speedvison tires when im on Dots ) and equal to 4 seconds faster than the top 5 speed Touring cars. The nice thing about these speed comparisons, is that you can go to any track that speed Touring or GT has visited , over all the years, get a time and predict with in a second or two on how you would do. no matter where Mark Anderson went, he was in the same battle with the same guys in any given year.
my prediction, again, if I dont hit 2:30 at Road America, it would be a big surprise. Touring cars run 2:32 on STREET tires!! and from what Joe Fan and Mark have told me, the HP to weight pays HUGE dividends at Road America. I regularly beat these cars in club events on the same tires. (so just equaling their 4 second slower street tire time, has a ton of margin for error)
Another data point, im running the same time as Mark Anderson ran just 3 years ago at Laguna in a car with 5 liters vs 6.5. He had a lot more track time than most all of us , by even then!!!! (ie 1:40.3 at Laguna seca on BFGR1s)
Sounds like the shoot out is set for RA next year. the 6.5 liter guys will have a great group. the 5liter boys will also have a bunch of cars going at it. should be a great show and some great competition.
Mark Kibort
. I
there were several years where I was on the track 3x per month. Don, had a lot of those months this year, and part of last year, but remember its not only practice, its perfect practice. 120 track days, all with about 1hour of track time each on average. if thats the measure, im probably more like 120hours not 1000 hours. but I have been in 5 speed GT pro races! (and had fun, and did it cheaper, shared sandwitches and tires with mark anderson , and beat some big money guys, etc yada yada , ha ha ha)
I have to respond with some FACTS. (and a little bench racing)
my times at Laguna and Sears are 2 seconds faster than Anderson (on street toyo speedvison tires when im on Dots ) and equal to 4 seconds faster than the top 5 speed Touring cars. The nice thing about these speed comparisons, is that you can go to any track that speed Touring or GT has visited , over all the years, get a time and predict with in a second or two on how you would do. no matter where Mark Anderson went, he was in the same battle with the same guys in any given year.
my prediction, again, if I dont hit 2:30 at Road America, it would be a big surprise. Touring cars run 2:32 on STREET tires!! and from what Joe Fan and Mark have told me, the HP to weight pays HUGE dividends at Road America. I regularly beat these cars in club events on the same tires. (so just equaling their 4 second slower street tire time, has a ton of margin for error)
Another data point, im running the same time as Mark Anderson ran just 3 years ago at Laguna in a car with 5 liters vs 6.5. He had a lot more track time than most all of us , by even then!!!! (ie 1:40.3 at Laguna seca on BFGR1s)
Sounds like the shoot out is set for RA next year. the 6.5 liter guys will have a great group. the 5liter boys will also have a bunch of cars going at it. should be a great show and some great competition.
Mark Kibort
. I
Originally posted by marc@DEVEK
It all depends on your definition of faster 210 mph still $#%@ fast in a street car.
Lets do a little Kibortian bench racing and look at some "facts":
Mark A has the most track time in a 928, and maybe the most racing time of any 928 driver...How about 2000-3000 hours racing, and another 500 in go-carts?? His 928 weighs about 2500 lbs ahs 500 rwhp..If I am wrong on this let me know...
Maybe David Lloyd is second in track time, between corvettes and 928, maybe 1000 hours, 928 weighs about 2700 lbs, has about 300 rwhp...If I am wrong on this let me know...
Mark Kibort is third, with maybe 1000 hours, car weighs about 2600 lbs, has about 330 rwhp....If I am wrong on this let me know...
Don with about 500-1000 hours, car weighs about 2900, has about 440 rwhp...If I am wrong on this let me know...
Marc (yea, me) with about 100 -200 hrs, 928 weighs about 2800 and has 500 rwhp (with stock manifold... )....If I am wrong on this let me know...
Hmm, who do you think is on first? Duh.
If you want to know whose 928 is fastest "on a specific track", that is a different task than knowing who is the fastest driver...that is too a different task....ahh, test. Dont try to compare apples to oranges, or sub 5 liter.
Anyways, have fun with this one...
Road America..hmmmm.tempting, even for a rookie like me.
Marc
DEVEK
It all depends on your definition of faster
210 mph still $#%@ fast in a street car.Lets do a little Kibortian bench racing and look at some "facts":
Mark A has the most track time in a 928, and maybe the most racing time of any 928 driver...How about 2000-3000 hours racing, and another 500 in go-carts?? His 928 weighs about 2500 lbs ahs 500 rwhp..If I am wrong on this let me know...
Maybe David Lloyd is second in track time, between corvettes and 928, maybe 1000 hours, 928 weighs about 2700 lbs, has about 300 rwhp...If I am wrong on this let me know...
Mark Kibort is third, with maybe 1000 hours, car weighs about 2600 lbs, has about 330 rwhp....If I am wrong on this let me know...
Don with about 500-1000 hours, car weighs about 2900, has about 440 rwhp...If I am wrong on this let me know...
Marc (yea, me) with about 100 -200 hrs, 928 weighs about 2800 and has 500 rwhp (with stock manifold...
)....If I am wrong on this let me know...Hmm, who do you think is on first? Duh.
If you want to know whose 928 is fastest "on a specific track", that is a different task than knowing who is the fastest driver...that is too a different task....ahh, test. Dont try to compare apples to oranges, or sub 5 liter.
Anyways, have fun with this one...
Road America..hmmmm.tempting, even for a rookie like me.
Marc
DEVEK
11-21-2003, 09:14 PM
#30
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John V . ...O k I got it you were pedaling as fast as you could when the blur roared past ! but what's a couple hundred horsepower between friends ? Did you get to follow for a bit or was he just plain gone ?