Chevy 350.
11-19-2003, 05:17 PM
#16
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After market aluminum heads will give you the most hp. All components such as cam (roller), intake manifold, carb, exhaust all matched to the rpm range and torque curve you want to achieve. An rpm screamer or stump puller. Don't forget gearing and converter. In other words it must be a total package to work properly. Reliability comes from quality machine work and quality parts that are made for the rpm range and horse power you want to achieve. Lower RPM engines obviously will last longer. Keep the compression 10-1 or under for street use. Consider stroking using a 400 crank. Because of the weight of the car and lack of gear selection, bottom end torque verses high rpm may make for more all round fun driving. I have witnessed some very powerful small block engines unfortunately it’s no longer a Porsche. Bang for the buck? The sm chev will give you the most hp for the least dollar than any other engine made. Anyway fun to speculate.
Daryl Miller
The Porsche’s
74 Jensen Healy
66 Mustang roller cam 302
67 Firebird 454 12.1 ¼ mile (sold to drag racer)
61 Chev 409 4speed 2Dr Ht (project car)
Daryl Miller
The Porsche’s
74 Jensen Healy
66 Mustang roller cam 302
67 Firebird 454 12.1 ¼ mile (sold to drag racer)
61 Chev 409 4speed 2Dr Ht (project car)
11-19-2003, 05:32 PM
#17
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Originally posted by Jfrahm
Also consider that Chevy had the 32v LT5 and the Northstar family of OHC engines but still chose the pushrod motor for the Z06 'vette.
Also consider that Chevy had the 32v LT5 and the Northstar family of OHC engines but still chose the pushrod motor for the Z06 'vette.
I would stay far away from an LT5 (ZR-1) motor. The Z06 motor is better in every way.
11-19-2003, 06:57 PM
#18
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Really? I heard the LT5 was great. It probably cost a lot to produce, but from what I have read it would take a lot of abuse and last a long time (for a 400 HP motor.)
-Joel.
-Joel.
11-19-2003, 07:48 PM
#19
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If you want to know more about Chevy 350's check out a couple of the Vette sites. All you could ever want to know about Chevy small blocks.
Corvette forum
Corvette Action
Anthony Tate
79/928 Silver Metallic
(closet Vette owner)
Corvette forum
Corvette Action
Anthony Tate
79/928 Silver Metallic
(closet Vette owner)
LS 6 crate motor. Should have >360 rwhp. and will last !!!
11-20-2003, 12:54 AM
#21
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How much do said motors cost and weight?
Here's the reason I ask.
I'm kinda willing to bet that if you buy a Chevy 350 that will give you S4 proformance, and will last 300,000 miles, your going to pay a similer price.
However I can't back that up with numbers.
Here's the reason I ask.
I'm kinda willing to bet that if you buy a Chevy 350 that will give you S4 proformance, and will last 300,000 miles, your going to pay a similer price.
However I can't back that up with numbers.
11-20-2003, 10:22 AM
#22
Three Wheelin'
An LS-1 puts out 350-ish hp.
An LS-6 puts out 405 hp, this is the Z06 motor.
The are both Gen III blocks, and neither one requires any modifications for 'longevity'.
Either one will live a long time with proper maintenance. You can probably find an LS-1 in the junkyard for a good price. Make sure you get all the wiring harnesses and ECU. Look up the price and tell us what you find out.
George makes an excellent suggestion with a brand spankin' new engine; with proper maintenance, that too will run for a long time.
By the way, there is no need to 'detune' any of them as someone suggested. How would that be done anyway?
An LS-6 puts out 405 hp, this is the Z06 motor.
The are both Gen III blocks, and neither one requires any modifications for 'longevity'.
Either one will live a long time with proper maintenance. You can probably find an LS-1 in the junkyard for a good price. Make sure you get all the wiring harnesses and ECU. Look up the price and tell us what you find out.
George makes an excellent suggestion with a brand spankin' new engine; with proper maintenance, that too will run for a long time.
By the way, there is no need to 'detune' any of them as someone suggested. How would that be done anyway?
11-20-2003, 10:37 AM
#23
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Originally posted by Lagavulin
By the way, there is no need to 'detune' any of them as someone suggested. How would that be done anyway?
By the way, there is no need to 'detune' any of them as someone suggested. How would that be done anyway?
11-20-2003, 01:49 PM
#24
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The cost would indeed be equal.
In fact, from my exposure to the prices of crate motors for racing, etc,
if you want a really high quality SBC, with high horsepower,
it may cost *more* than the 928 engine...
The benefit of doing a SBC conversion, is that when it does
die, there are plenty of spare engines available to replace it
with, and plenty of people who can rebuild the thing for
1/4 the price of a new engine.
The cost of the conversion is only offset down the road,
when you need to rebuild the engine. The idea is that
you will pay *more* to replace your dead 928 engine
with a SBC, but you will pay *less* the next time you
have to rebuild it. So you will only recoup your costs
the next time you have to rebuild...
But in the meantime, maintainance and parts
will be cheaper, and you will have more horsepower
and torque than the stock 928 engine...
In fact, from my exposure to the prices of crate motors for racing, etc,
if you want a really high quality SBC, with high horsepower,
it may cost *more* than the 928 engine...
The benefit of doing a SBC conversion, is that when it does
die, there are plenty of spare engines available to replace it
with, and plenty of people who can rebuild the thing for
1/4 the price of a new engine.
The cost of the conversion is only offset down the road,
when you need to rebuild the engine. The idea is that
you will pay *more* to replace your dead 928 engine
with a SBC, but you will pay *less* the next time you
have to rebuild it. So you will only recoup your costs
the next time you have to rebuild...
But in the meantime, maintainance and parts
will be cheaper, and you will have more horsepower
and torque than the stock 928 engine...
11-20-2003, 03:07 PM
#25
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All you nedd to do is call Discount Inboard Marine. http://www.skidim.com/products.asp?dept=1014
They can get you a 350 long or short block with EFI, Elec. Ignition, hot cam and well over 300 HP for about 4-5K. Ive even seen them put ski-boat engines in dragsters w/o any mods. - Ruf
They can get you a 350 long or short block with EFI, Elec. Ignition, hot cam and well over 300 HP for about 4-5K. Ive even seen them put ski-boat engines in dragsters w/o any mods. - Ruf
11-20-2003, 04:00 PM
#26
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Since you can't really pop out and buy a new GTS engine from an aftermarket source I don't know how you would compare like for like. You can however buy new or near-zero mile take-out Chevy engines and they are not too expensive. A factory GTS engine would probably cost at least 20 grand, you could get a new 400 HP Chevy crate engine for less than half that.
I suggested detuning the motor to meet the stated HP goal. If longetivity is a concern detuning the motor would likely increase longetivity. A cam change for less peak HP, for example, would reduce strain on the valvetrain. You could also lower the rev limit in the ECU which would also help, but possibly not as much.
If your intention is to show that you could get a dead 928 back on the road with a new Porsche motor as cheaply and as well as with a Chevy motor, that may or may not be true. A lot depends on the fabrication costs and head-scratching time (which is pretty expensive if you are paying for labor.) Naturally a good used Porsche motor, which probably has tons of life left in it, would be easier and cheaper than a Chevy swap. Also the 32v cars and 300HP Euro cars already deliver excellent performance with the Porsche engine. A 4.5l USA car however would see a lot more HP with even a 300HP LT1 motor swap. To get an early car to 300HP with a Porsche engine, computer, etc. would start to get expensive fast. However you were talking about a GTS motor which indicates an HP increase as one of the goals.
It would help to clearly define the starting point and goals. New motor? Used motor? Low mileage?
In the case of, say, an early 928 with a bad motor, and a 350 HP goal you can do:
GTS engine, harness and ECU (used, shipped from Germany maybe?)
Cost w/o labor: Lots. A lot more than a nice 320 HP S4.
Euro S engine, harness, ECU, stroker crank, headers... (start with a wrecked Euro maybe?)
Cost w/o labor: A bunch, depends on your luck finding the donor car.
Getting that extra 50HP will be expensive.
Chevy motor: Used, with ECU, etc. they can be had pretty cheaply. You can get a whole car (wrecked) for a few grand. The conversion kit is $3k or so, I think.
Cost: Under $10K w/o labor.
That 345 HP is the killer here. If you could be happy with 320 HP, the solution to this problem is to simply buy an S4 (or if you have an S4 with a blown motor, buy a good used motor or rebuild yours.) If legal in your area, you can get a few HP out of the S4 motor with an X pipe and cat-back, and a few other tweaks. If you are rebuilding your motor, you could have the cams sprayed and reground while you have them out.
Long story short, I feel there are scenarios that make the Chevy engine attractive. Especially if you have a low-mileage body and you want a low mileage or new motor in it, and you want a lot of HP. IMO it'd be hard to justify not just buying an S4 that runs but people are funny about mileage.
-Joel.
Hmmm, Lagavulin. Got one of the last bottles available in the USA the other day, I should open 'er up. I'm waiting for the 12YO cask strength to arrive also. I have not had the Lag as it's been too warm, it goes better with cold and damp than warm and sunny in my mind.
I suggested detuning the motor to meet the stated HP goal. If longetivity is a concern detuning the motor would likely increase longetivity. A cam change for less peak HP, for example, would reduce strain on the valvetrain. You could also lower the rev limit in the ECU which would also help, but possibly not as much.
If your intention is to show that you could get a dead 928 back on the road with a new Porsche motor as cheaply and as well as with a Chevy motor, that may or may not be true. A lot depends on the fabrication costs and head-scratching time (which is pretty expensive if you are paying for labor.) Naturally a good used Porsche motor, which probably has tons of life left in it, would be easier and cheaper than a Chevy swap. Also the 32v cars and 300HP Euro cars already deliver excellent performance with the Porsche engine. A 4.5l USA car however would see a lot more HP with even a 300HP LT1 motor swap. To get an early car to 300HP with a Porsche engine, computer, etc. would start to get expensive fast. However you were talking about a GTS motor which indicates an HP increase as one of the goals.
It would help to clearly define the starting point and goals. New motor? Used motor? Low mileage?
In the case of, say, an early 928 with a bad motor, and a 350 HP goal you can do:
GTS engine, harness and ECU (used, shipped from Germany maybe?)
Cost w/o labor: Lots. A lot more than a nice 320 HP S4.
Euro S engine, harness, ECU, stroker crank, headers... (start with a wrecked Euro maybe?)
Cost w/o labor: A bunch, depends on your luck finding the donor car.
Getting that extra 50HP will be expensive.
Chevy motor: Used, with ECU, etc. they can be had pretty cheaply. You can get a whole car (wrecked) for a few grand. The conversion kit is $3k or so, I think.
Cost: Under $10K w/o labor.
That 345 HP is the killer here. If you could be happy with 320 HP, the solution to this problem is to simply buy an S4 (or if you have an S4 with a blown motor, buy a good used motor or rebuild yours.) If legal in your area, you can get a few HP out of the S4 motor with an X pipe and cat-back, and a few other tweaks. If you are rebuilding your motor, you could have the cams sprayed and reground while you have them out.
Long story short, I feel there are scenarios that make the Chevy engine attractive. Especially if you have a low-mileage body and you want a low mileage or new motor in it, and you want a lot of HP. IMO it'd be hard to justify not just buying an S4 that runs but people are funny about mileage.
-Joel.
Hmmm, Lagavulin. Got one of the last bottles available in the USA the other day, I should open 'er up. I'm waiting for the 12YO cask strength to arrive also. I have not had the Lag as it's been too warm, it goes better with cold and damp than warm and sunny in my mind.
11-20-2003, 04:12 PM
#27
Drifting
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I figure I will cross that bridge when I come to it.
As long as my engine runs, I will keep it maintained, and even hot-rod it.
But if it dies someday, I will look at the costs and the options.
I could spend $20,000 on a really superb SBC conversion,
or I could spend $20,000 on a really well done Porsche stroker.
The stroker will last longer, and be higher quality, and close to original.
The SBC would be easier and cheaper to hot-rod, and cheaper to repair and replace...
It's really less about the dollars, and more about what you want from your car
in the future...
As long as my engine runs, I will keep it maintained, and even hot-rod it.
But if it dies someday, I will look at the costs and the options.
I could spend $20,000 on a really superb SBC conversion,
or I could spend $20,000 on a really well done Porsche stroker.
The stroker will last longer, and be higher quality, and close to original.
The SBC would be easier and cheaper to hot-rod, and cheaper to repair and replace...
It's really less about the dollars, and more about what you want from your car
in the future...
11-20-2003, 05:25 PM
#29
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Well, I think dropping a new GTS engine is not a reasonable option for most people looking at a blown 928 motor, and debating their options...
If they want to keep their car, and get it back on the road, they can:
1. Drop in a used engine.
Plus: Cheap $2,000-$4,000
Minus: it's used, and has just as much chance of blowing up as the original motor did.
2. Rebuild their engine to factory "like new" specs.
This could include a stroker crank, all the machine work, etc..
Plus: Pretty much a new engine. Add some horsepower...
Minus: Cost. $15,000-20,000
3. Buy a "new" 928 engine.
Plus: Same as the rebuild, long lifespan...
Minus: Cost and availibility. $8,500 for the one for sale now. Others rare...
4. SBC conversion.
Plus: Add horsepower, cheaper parts, cheaper to replace.
Minus: Initial cost. $8,000-15,000. Less time between rebuilds.
5. Part the dead car out, and take whatever other money
you have saved, and buy another 928 that runs...
If they want to keep their car, and get it back on the road, they can:
1. Drop in a used engine.
Plus: Cheap $2,000-$4,000
Minus: it's used, and has just as much chance of blowing up as the original motor did.
2. Rebuild their engine to factory "like new" specs.
This could include a stroker crank, all the machine work, etc..
Plus: Pretty much a new engine. Add some horsepower...
Minus: Cost. $15,000-20,000
3. Buy a "new" 928 engine.
Plus: Same as the rebuild, long lifespan...
Minus: Cost and availibility. $8,500 for the one for sale now. Others rare...
4. SBC conversion.
Plus: Add horsepower, cheaper parts, cheaper to replace.
Minus: Initial cost. $8,000-15,000. Less time between rebuilds.
5. Part the dead car out, and take whatever other money
you have saved, and buy another 928 that runs...
09-16-2005, 04:07 PM
#30
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Go to ebay...
Why put a 350 into a Porsche? You can go on ebay and buy a really, really fast bracket racer with a stroker sbc for around $5K.
There is exactly one reason only to put an sbc into anything - its cheap. There is not denying it. Amongst the world of ordinary, ancient design motors, the sbc is cheap.
However, an sbc is not something to boast of, is it?
"Look! I have a 350 chevy motor!"
So do delivery trucks, vans, and taxi cabs.
I can see why a person might put in a 350 chevy into a Porsche, but it certainly is not something to brag about. Rather it is a reason to keep the hood down. To boast of a 350 sbc is to brag about being one of the sheep in a flock of 100,000,000.
Boasting of an sbc is to boast of being a nobody.
Cheap. Uncreative. Generic.
There is exactly one reason only to put an sbc into anything - its cheap. There is not denying it. Amongst the world of ordinary, ancient design motors, the sbc is cheap.
However, an sbc is not something to boast of, is it?
"Look! I have a 350 chevy motor!"
So do delivery trucks, vans, and taxi cabs.
I can see why a person might put in a 350 chevy into a Porsche, but it certainly is not something to brag about. Rather it is a reason to keep the hood down. To boast of a 350 sbc is to brag about being one of the sheep in a flock of 100,000,000.
Boasting of an sbc is to boast of being a nobody.
Cheap. Uncreative. Generic.