928 Por-Vette sold for $9K
05-13-2006, 06:31 PM
#46
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Hear, hear! To those of us who grew up in the 1950s hotrod culture, a disposition toward engine swaps might seem a bit less treasonous; I fondly remember my 1951 Ford convertible with an Oldsmobile OHV engine, as well as an MG-TD with a Ford V8-60 in it... both ran like proverbial scalded cats, and the MG could do it around corners, the Ford not so well, but it was fast on the straight.
Originally Posted by tresamore
OK. So with some of the statements I'm reading here, I would conclude that some of you would think that a Shelby Cobra is a crappy car because it has a Ford engine and not an AC engine?!?! Hmmmm. Think what you want. If I buy a car and want to have a damn gun turret on the roof I'll do it. You don't have to like it. I'll pay the price good or bad on the resell. I have many people say they don't like the look of the 928. So be it. I like them, I bought them. Sure the engineering is superb. It better be for the money they cost. That doesn't mean it can't be improved. I had a few jags that were crapcans until I converted them to chevy powertrains. They were lighter, faster, cheaper, more reliable, more fuel efficient. If someone wants to put a different motor in a car, more power to them. Where do you guys think the heritage of performance cars comes from? Do you think all cars left the factory to live and die with their original parts? Experimentation is what has allowed us to have 300+ Hp sports cars. I wish more people would experiment with alternative powerplants. To be honest I enjoy my S and will enjoy my S4 (someday), But when I really want to have fun I drive my bright orange 69 vette convertible w/ a 454. It didn't come from GM that way, I did it because its mine and thats what I wanted to do. I built it to suit MY desires. I wish more people would do the same. Thats how we advance! OK, where's my Valium!!
05-13-2006, 06:58 PM
#47
True. But I think its this apple or that orange - as they can't be compared. You are standing there, infront of your 928 with many parts replaced, and you know the belt went and blew through some valves.
Thats a few thousand and you are back on the road with a good motor.
The Chevy conversions, to be done right, as I have watched the 944 guys, need thousands and thousands of parts to make it work. TonyG said 15k for the finished product on a 944.
The 32V heads are basically the best heads since many can remember. Thse chamber, valve placement, are all totally up to date with today's tech. The only think missing is Sterling's cam-phasing.
I think peope who put the chevy or ford stuff in there are on thier own pathm, but I think it is really from a slight biase towards the chevy and some ignorance of what it actually would take to do a 928 motor correctly - which really isn't THAT large of a sum.
Its Chevy install is not the valley pass to get around mount everest instead of climbing. Rather its Blowing up the mountain and building a new road - reinventing the wheel.
Thats a few thousand and you are back on the road with a good motor.
The Chevy conversions, to be done right, as I have watched the 944 guys, need thousands and thousands of parts to make it work. TonyG said 15k for the finished product on a 944.
The 32V heads are basically the best heads since many can remember. Thse chamber, valve placement, are all totally up to date with today's tech. The only think missing is Sterling's cam-phasing.
I think peope who put the chevy or ford stuff in there are on thier own pathm, but I think it is really from a slight biase towards the chevy and some ignorance of what it actually would take to do a 928 motor correctly - which really isn't THAT large of a sum.
Its Chevy install is not the valley pass to get around mount everest instead of climbing. Rather its Blowing up the mountain and building a new road - reinventing the wheel.
Originally Posted by Hughett
The very fact that this whole topic of Por-vettes, 350s and Hybrids has generated so much discussion (coincidentally, at a time when several 928'ers have lost T-Belts) should be indicative of the nervousness associated with the "What if I lose MY T-Belt...what would I do?" The Chevy is an alternative and, although it may be 2nd best...it's still a reasonable option that has some attraction and could keep an otherwise wonderfully beautiful and functional car on the road....and perhaps more reliably.
Admittedly, I'm ****-compulsive about the T-Belt thing but I just forked over more than $2200 for a complete T-Belt job and other "take it back to like new" stuff by reputedly one of the best 928 mechanics on the West Coast and my T-belt now seems to be migrating to the edge of the gears after only a couple thousand miles....and all key parts were replaced...and the engine has less than 66K miles on it. Yes, it could be a bad (new) part part was put in...or mechanic error (current or previous) or any number of things but to just to have it checked out will be another $600 to who knows how much more money to get it fixed. That's what makes Chevy look appealing to me. I've run them all my life an had relatively few problems...but I will keep the 928...even if I have to replace its heart.
Harvey
Admittedly, I'm ****-compulsive about the T-Belt thing but I just forked over more than $2200 for a complete T-Belt job and other "take it back to like new" stuff by reputedly one of the best 928 mechanics on the West Coast and my T-belt now seems to be migrating to the edge of the gears after only a couple thousand miles....and all key parts were replaced...and the engine has less than 66K miles on it. Yes, it could be a bad (new) part part was put in...or mechanic error (current or previous) or any number of things but to just to have it checked out will be another $600 to who knows how much more money to get it fixed. That's what makes Chevy look appealing to me. I've run them all my life an had relatively few problems...but I will keep the 928...even if I have to replace its heart.
Harvey
05-13-2006, 09:23 PM
#48
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I don't have any problem with somebody doing a Chevy conversion.
But I will say this...
Every time I see one, I find myself admiring a nice-looking, apparently normal beauty - except when you raise the hood and look under the surface suddenly it's like "The Crying Game" all over again!
But I will say this...
Every time I see one, I find myself admiring a nice-looking, apparently normal beauty - except when you raise the hood and look under the surface suddenly it's like "The Crying Game" all over again!
05-14-2006, 12:02 AM
#49
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OK... Got to put my 2 cents...
As owners of TWO Chevy Powered 928's I can tell you this...
A: No matter how much any of us put into the engine, the base 928 will handle the horsepower, but non of us has the stability computers of the new cars that will keep us going straight and put the power to the ground like a new car... period, end of story...
B: If we all put $$$$$ into a car worth $ than we are all nuts... that said I put over $65K in a 1987 928 so I should be king of the idiots...
C: How about an AMG Mercedes engine from the SLK 55? Would that make it less of a 928? After all our transaxles are Mercedes!
D: I just Dyno Chipped my Chevy based engine which by the way uses a Ford EFI System... 298 HP at the rear wheels ... 332 Lbs Torque... Instant throttle response... extremely smooth.
Our 82 928 has 600 HP and 600 lbs torque, (with very little directional control)...
A: No matter how much any of us put into the engine, the base 928 will handle the horsepower, but non of us has the stability computers of the new cars that will keep us going straight and put the power to the ground like a new car... period, end of story...
B: If we all put $$$$$ into a car worth $ than we are all nuts... that said I put over $65K in a 1987 928 so I should be king of the idiots...
C: How about an AMG Mercedes engine from the SLK 55? Would that make it less of a 928? After all our transaxles are Mercedes!
D: I just Dyno Chipped my Chevy based engine which by the way uses a Ford EFI System... 298 HP at the rear wheels ... 332 Lbs Torque... Instant throttle response... extremely smooth.
Our 82 928 has 600 HP and 600 lbs torque, (with very little directional control)...
05-14-2006, 01:00 AM
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Originally Posted by LukeSportsman
I agree with Big Dave. So the Chevy push rod design may be simply, aged, and less expensive.....but you can't argue the race sucess of this power plant. I never understood the purist opinion to the point of letting a car disappear. Let's face it, there is several cars that have not caught on with the collectors that are beautiful and worth saving. These same cars including the 308 and 928 can be hard to justify "restoring" if the engine costs more than the remaining structure or even than the completed "restored" car. I have seen carcass 928 go for less than $2k, anyone want to build me an engine for that amount? I've seen 308 carcasses go for under $15k with nothing more than a blown engine. Can anyone build me a 308 engine for less than $5k, because that is what a running non matching one might be worth.
Why would you rather see a Porsche rust than be driven? I'm just not on board with this. Is a full blooded Italian Thourobred cool and superior? Yes, but I'd like to see a Northstar powered 308 over a pile of parts disassembled for spares. Are they really a Porsche or Ferrari anymore? The clubs would say no, but are they still great machines....they could be.
There is two options with different answers in my opinion.
Cut up a good car to make it cheap and fast.
Save a bad car with a financially warrantied/feasible route for the owner.
Off soap box now, and I know many will disagree with me, but thats OK
Why would you rather see a Porsche rust than be driven? I'm just not on board with this. Is a full blooded Italian Thourobred cool and superior? Yes, but I'd like to see a Northstar powered 308 over a pile of parts disassembled for spares. Are they really a Porsche or Ferrari anymore? The clubs would say no, but are they still great machines....they could be.
There is two options with different answers in my opinion.
Cut up a good car to make it cheap and fast.
Save a bad car with a financially warrantied/feasible route for the owner.
Off soap box now, and I know many will disagree with me, but thats OK
05-14-2006, 10:56 AM
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Personally I think the AC cobra is over rated. You want a $2,000 928 rebuild? Send me your engine and I'll do it. Contrary to what everybody is saying, the Chevy conversion is not cheap...you would have less money in a full, proper 928 rebuild compared to going the Chevy route. Remember, it isn't just the motor cost...it is all the other stuff you have to do.
05-14-2006, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Herr-Kuhn
want a $2,000 928 rebuild? Send me your engine and I'll do it. .
Thanks
Tarek
05-14-2006, 12:28 PM
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If there was a way an OB engine can be completely rebuilt and produce 320 rear wheel HP and 300+ torque for a reasonable price there would be no reason whatsoever to go the Chevy route.
Logistics is the key to getting an OB engine rebuilt at a reasonable cost.
If you have acess to a complete machine shop for free or reduced rates, Porsche parts at dealer cost, and the the mechanical skill, it might be possible.
An OB gasket set goes for $600-700
Rod and main bearings $400-500
Pistons $95 each
Rods $25 each
Just to replace the water pump and tensioner and TB will run $280 in parts and that doesn't include any of the bearings, bushings, or guides. Add another $200.
How about getting the heads rebuilt? Another $1500
We haven't touched the intake, or added a bigger cam yet and we're still at 220 flywheel HP.
The original Chevy LT1 I used was completely rebuilt. It ran about 3K and gave me about 320 rear wheel HP.
The basic conversion kit was less than 2k. I spent another 1-2K on options.
My LT4 Chevy with new forged GM stroker crank, GM cam, rods, pistons, rings, gaskets, GM intake, GM Performance timing set, all new SS valves, springs, cost me less than 4K. And that included having the block checked, prepped, clearanced and rotating assembly balanced.
I just had both heads redone with new springs, regrinding and new guides for $400.
And I'm kicking myself because I could have bought a brand new GM 383 crate engine with 425 HP and 449 FPT for $5499, delivered to my door.
If the 928 stuff could be done at near the cost of the Chevy stuff, I'd have been the first in line. But at these Chevy rates, I could afford a whole new engine every 3-4 years.
Logistics is the key to getting an OB engine rebuilt at a reasonable cost.
If you have acess to a complete machine shop for free or reduced rates, Porsche parts at dealer cost, and the the mechanical skill, it might be possible.
An OB gasket set goes for $600-700
Rod and main bearings $400-500
Pistons $95 each
Rods $25 each
Just to replace the water pump and tensioner and TB will run $280 in parts and that doesn't include any of the bearings, bushings, or guides. Add another $200.
How about getting the heads rebuilt? Another $1500
We haven't touched the intake, or added a bigger cam yet and we're still at 220 flywheel HP.
The original Chevy LT1 I used was completely rebuilt. It ran about 3K and gave me about 320 rear wheel HP.
The basic conversion kit was less than 2k. I spent another 1-2K on options.
My LT4 Chevy with new forged GM stroker crank, GM cam, rods, pistons, rings, gaskets, GM intake, GM Performance timing set, all new SS valves, springs, cost me less than 4K. And that included having the block checked, prepped, clearanced and rotating assembly balanced.
I just had both heads redone with new springs, regrinding and new guides for $400.
And I'm kicking myself because I could have bought a brand new GM 383 crate engine with 425 HP and 449 FPT for $5499, delivered to my door.
If the 928 stuff could be done at near the cost of the Chevy stuff, I'd have been the first in line. But at these Chevy rates, I could afford a whole new engine every 3-4 years.
