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Greg: i asked in another thread, could u email me approx cost?'
may do this in october.
Indeed - I'm interested in this also - since you can never have too much cooling capacity in Phoenix.
That location is available for me - apart from the washer tank! - but agree with your thoughts there. Now normally on a GTS that tank is deleted, along with the intensive washer system. However I do have one installed there already for my rear washers.
Is this a kit to install locally, or do you need to install it Greg?
I have a question regarding the ability of the ac button on that is currently powering the additional relay to power the larger blower motor from Roger through the blower resistor block in the cowl. I want to tap into it to run two more fans on on the remote condenser and the other as a pusher out front. Will it be able to support two more relay activations?
The button in the little AC console activates a small relay in the HVAC control head on all but early cars. This is the AC clutch relay that should be replaced as it's undersized to start with. Once you have that solved, the feed to the compressor is 5-8 amps static draw, so plenty of extra capacity to trigger one or two additional fan relay coils. Not enough to run the fans though.
The consideration for available power is still very important. Adding fans big enough to make a serious dent in the airflow and cooling will exceed the capabilities of the stock alternator and primary wiring at anything less than cruising engine RPM. Of course, by the time we get to cruising speed the advantages of additional fans fall off sharply. Plan on one of Greg's alternator upgrades, along with new primary wiring in the front. Get the package from Greg, and the primary wiring will be up-rated to match the new alternator capacity. At that point you can tap power for the fans from the connection at the starter, the alternator, the ABS power connection left front, or the jump post at the right front. If you plan to use the ABS post, alert Greg so that feeder can be appropriately up-sized too.
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Were I going after this problem seriously, I'd be shopping for a better higher-capacity condenser that fits where the existing unit lives. Except for the headlight and cooling flap motors and a couple related brackets, I'm pretty sure you could almost stack a couple condensers there now, and parallel the plumbing. Adding the front pusher fan(s) would increase the airflow and obviously transfer more heat out. While the approach temperatures to the radiator would go up slightly, the additional airflow through the whole thing would actually improve the engine cooling so long as the condensers didn't seriously reduce the airflow at cruising speeds, when the factory fans might otherwise slow down. They would run a little faster if the radiator wasn't keeping up, based on coolant outlet temp in the left-side tank. If the pusher ran at full speed based on compressor running, the point would be moot, and the systems would balance towards cooler rather than hotter AC and coolant temps. At the expense of alternator horsepower of course.
Thanks for the quick response Dr. Bob, I did put some thought into replacing the front condenser with a larger version which I may do if this does not improve ac cooling. If I revisit, I'll probably move the trans cooler to where I will place the add-on condenser and add a larger parallel condenser to the front.
I do have Greg's alternator and additional wiring from the alternator to the jump post and a new FOE harness from Sean. I did plan on using the ABS post for the front pusher and jump post for the add-on condenser fan.
Adding another condenser in front of the existing condenser was, of course, the simple approach. And of course, I tried this. The problem I had with adding more condenser to the front of the car is heat. Improved A/C is essential in hot climates. Hot climates naturally increase the temperature in the radiator. Things get very marginal, very quickly, as you add more heat load to an already taxed system.
Of course, The 1991 model had the oil cooler moved out of the radiator, which does helps the heat problem in the radiator (which is why they did it)...with a huge penalty.
This change raises the oil temperature significantly (and ruins camshafts) in any kind of stop and go traffic. (I call this change the "Freeway/Autobaun only" oil cooler..,,,certainly way down on the list of "good Porsche Ideas.") In most vehicles that we are spending $3500 to get "modern A/C", I generally would have already added an oil cooler back into the radiator and would be running both the radiator oil cooler and the "Autobaun oil cooler" in series.....so the radiator is now also dealing with cooling the oil. Although this adds heat load, good used camshafts are getting damn rare and new camshafts are huge dollars!
Putting another condenser in front of the radiator on these cars was just too much heat load.
So, I moved the extra condenser away from the front. This turned out to have an amazing change in water temperature. The air between the stock condenser and the radiator dropped over 100 degrees (on a 90 degree day) from the temperature on a stock A/C system, completely changing the heat load on the radiator. And best of all, for me, it looks totally stock! No extra fan, no extra condenser out front, etc.
Adding another condenser in front of the existing condenser was, of course, the simple approach. And of course, I tried this. The problem I had with adding more condenser to the front of the car is heat. Improved A/C is essential in hot climates. Hot climates naturally increase the temperature in the radiator. Things get very marginal, very quickly, as you add more heat load to an already taxed system.
Of course, The 1991 model had the oil cooler moved out of the radiator, which does helps the heat problem in the radiator (which is why they did it)...with a huge penalty.
This change raises the oil temperature significantly (and ruins camshafts) in any kind of stop and go traffic. (I call this change the "Freeway/Autobaun only" oil cooler..,,,certainly way down on the list of "good Porsche Ideas.") In most vehicles that we are spending $3500 to get "modern A/C", I generally would have already added an oil cooler back into the radiator and would be running both the radiator oil cooler and the "Autobaun oil cooler" in series.....so the radiator is now also dealing with cooling the oil. Although this adds heat load, good used camshafts are getting damn rare and new camshafts are huge dollars!
Putting another condenser in front of the radiator on these cars was just too much heat load.
So, I moved the extra condenser away from the front. This turned out to have an amazing change in water temperature. The air between the stock condenser and the radiator dropped over 100 degrees (on a 90 degree day) from the temperature on a stock A/C system, completely changing the heat load on the radiator. And best of all, for me, it looks totally stock! No extra fan, no extra condenser out front, etc.
Down here in Oz our Bruce (Sydney) gets good results just fitting a parallel flow condenser in the std site. Southern Oz wont be as hot as southern USA, but it does improve the AC.
jp 83 Euro S AT 57k
It depends a bit on what is there to work with and what we need to do.
I've got the basic "kit", for cars that have a fully functional system that hold pressure. This includes new high and low hoses, dryer, additional condenser, fan, mounting brackets and hardware, relay and wiring for additional fan, higher output HVAC fan with upgraded relay and wiring, insulation, and hardware. This costs $3950, installed.
If you need a compressor, expansion valves, system flush, rebuilt HVAC control unit, vacuum pods, "heater on all the time" work, rear fan or evaporator, front evaporator, etc., the price increases.
It depends a bit on what is there to work with and what we need to do.
I've got the basic "kit", for cars that have a fully functional system that hold pressure. This includes new high and low hoses, dryer, additional condenser, fan, mounting brackets and hardware, relay and wiring for additional fan, higher output HVAC fan with upgraded relay and wiring, insulation, and hardware. This costs $3950, installed.
If you need a compressor, expansion valves, system flush, rebuilt HVAC control unit, vacuum pods, "heater on all the time" work, rear fan or evaporator, front evaporator, etc., the price increases.
How much time you need? The entire system is otherwise healthy...although as Ive said, I need a new compressor which I scheduled for the 18th.
Whats the workaround for window washer fluid tank if this removes it?
I already have an unopened/new roger HVAC fan and harness kit I could toss in?
I frequently drive up and down highway 99. The bugs, at certain times of the year, are awful. However, no amounts of washer fluid do anything but smear the greasy mess around....
I use the tiny tank for extensive cleaning and turn it into the washer tank. Sprays for about 30 seconds, which is enough for one cleaning. There's a couple of spots in the inner fenders for a larger tank, bit to date, no one has asked me for more fluid than the tiny tank holds.
I figure anyone with a window dirtier than what that tiny tank will hold is going to wash the car....or scrub off the bugs at the next fuel stop.
Sure, I can use that fan motor....I make the loom for it and supply it to Roger, anyway....so it will meet my quality standards.
I frequently drive up and down highway 99. The bugs, at certain times of the year, are awful. However, no amounts of washer fluid do anything but smear the greasy mess around....
I use the tiny tank for extensive cleaning and turn it into the washer tank. Sprays for about 30 seconds, which is enough for one cleaning. There's a couple of spots in the inner fenders for a larger tank, bit to date, no one has asked me for more fluid than the tiny tank holds.
I figure anyone with a window dirtier than what that tiny tank will hold is going to wash the car....or scrub off the bugs at the next fuel stop.
Sure, I can use that fan motor....I make the loom for it and supply it to Roger, anyway....so it will meet my quality standards.
09-08-2017, 11:34 AM
