Captain_Slow

A friend who owns several National concours winners used to tell me the 928 wouldn't be worth the effort and expense - unless I just wanted to drive it and enjoy it. That was just a few years ago. But over the past 18 months or so he's changed his tune to "Hold on to it. It will steadily rise in value 10-15% per year. The value will only go up here." The downside is I have 92K on it and this new rising tide has me thinking about keeping it below 100K miles for "awhile".

GT6ixer

Actually, how many miles are on that Volt? In 30 years after most Volt owners have scrapped them for more efficient EVs and when potentially autonomous cars are more of the norm, the Volt will be looked at as one of the more rare Hybrids (at least compared to a Prius) and collectible by today's 10 year olds that will fondly remember blowing them up in Grand Theft Auto.

safulop

Well we can argue this up and down for a while but, I would say that while the demand for low-mile 928s has gone up, and dare I say "skyrocketed" since 2010, from my position the demand for high-milers has gone down.

Yes the old threads involve responses from, as you say, "random people." These are people like Dr. Bob and Jadz and Rob Edwards, who are well-known around here. But the current thread involves responses that actually say "very few people would ever buy a car with 150,000 miles." And no one said that before. So this is a new sentiment that did not have any currency back in 2010. In fact, I never read anyone say that in 2010.

On the subject of comps, my appraiser had plenty when he pinned the value at $15,200 back in 2010.

safulop

Yes I would suggest "lose it or don't use it."
The former if you're tired of it (as I am), the latter if you want to keep it for its value. If you're committed to just simply driving then, have at 'er!

Captain_Slow

Funny you bring up the Volt.45,000 miles, 78% electric. Turns out Volts go a very long way without battery problems. No reports of batteries failing yet...and even if a cell or two do fail, only those get replaced. GM did a great job on this over engineered and extremely reliable car. Highest owner satisfaction and reliability data of any car GM has built...ever. Many over 100,000 miles with no signs of battery degradation. But nothing tops this! (he's now up to 361,000 miles)

https://transportevolved.com/2016/03...c-power-alone/

I think Volt will at the very least become a historically significant "transition" car...truly innovative and the first serious attempt by an American manufacturer to build an electric car. The EV-1 was not a serious sustainable vehicle. The Gen 1 Volt doesn't have the EV range of the Gen 2, but after having a Gen 2 loaner for a few days I agree with many who feel the Gen 1 is the more solid and higher quality vehicle in terms of materials and ride comfort. All Volts handle really well (better than my S4) due to the heavy battery mounted low in the middle of the car. The suspension is innovative, too. But I view it as an appliance - hopefully a very durable and long-lived appliance. Paid just $16K for a loaded Certified 2-year old. My car payment is equal to the monthly gas I'm no longer buying. Awesome.

Imo000

Did GM buy the technology from someone else like Toyota?

Captain_Slow

No...GM is trying to license the drive system to other manufacturers. However, the battery cells were developed in close collaboration with LG. A clean-sheet project collaboration between GM and LG. Keep in mind, there are no battery production companies for GM to partner with in the USA. Tesla has been doing the same thing with Panasonic, and even the Giga Factory in Nevada is a collaboration between Tesla and Panasonic.

Mikebte

anyone else been watching auto auctions on TV?

928 sold, but only 1.

https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Even...E-928S--201163

19psi

After seeing the chart that Hacker posted and many auctions like the one you just listed, it seems like the early models are becoming more valuable than the S4...never would have expected that just 5 years ago.

I also have to say that is the most unique looking 928 interior I've ever seen. Orange seats with yellow piping... I bet the piping was the same color and changed over time just like the red does.

safulop

Well here's a really nice S4 for sale, for a whopping $12,000. Man those values sure are skyrocketing! I don't think I can stand it!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1989-Porsche...m=222386224767

928NOOBIE

Wow that is nice....I need the wish genie to give me 12 grand and an extra garage space lol

docmirror

The admitted squawk list is: AC, driver door, central locking. After saying 'everything works as it should'. If I were to get that car in my shop for a PPI I will guarantee I can find another $3000 worth of discrepancies.

So lets say your typical goober Porsche shopper buys this car for $13k delivered. Then he has the known issues fixed and is now into it maybe just >$15k. Then we get to the unknown issues which may take another $1-2k to get solved(could be much higher) depending on the shop and their skill with the 928. Then we get to the deferred mx(last "service" was a TB "checked", look at the front damper fuel hose) and I can see it needs motor mounts right now. When we get done with the MM/OPG/TB/WP/fuel lines/PS lines job we've spent another $3-4k. So on a conservative basis this car will finally be as nice mechanically as it is cosmetically and we are now hovering ~ $20k. Top end refresh anyone? Shocks? Fuel pump?

Cars with this mileage and deferred mx should be selling around $10k. Most people know by instinct and not actual depth of knowledge that a 30 year old complex Porsche is going to need money. That's what keeps our good 928 vendors in the black.

safulop

You're surely right on all this. That's why I don't mind asking $16,000 obo for mine with similar miles, which has had all that stuff taken care of. Oh and, my A/C works.

cobalt

Eventually there will come a point where mileage is not so important.

Just like the air-cooled 911 market it is all about the individual car. It's condition, mileage (still for the post long nose cars), color combo, mechanical history and backup documentation all play a clear role in what one is worth over another. Sights like Hagerty which have never been close to correct on the values of these cars hurt their value. They clump everything into one category and most cars sell for far more than they claim.

Simply put these cars were over engineered, expensive to build and probably one of the finest GT cars for decades. Unlike a comparable F car of the period they will run forever if well maintained and don't change how they feel and get soft over their life.

Buy a Maserati QP they are a dime a dozen and will be worth nothing in the near future. The 928 has a bad rap and rightfully so. To many where sold to owners who couldn't afford their upkeep. Shade tree mechanics did more damage than good and many are in need of a lot of TLC despite mileage. Find a nice example, everything working and in great cosmetic shape and you will be able to fetch double or more average market prices. I expect that you will see a rise in value as less and less good examples are available not unlike the 914 and 968. Collectors are still overpaying for 5 speed GTS's with low mileage but in 5 or 10 years who will be laughing?

docmirror

I think your assessment is pretty accurate. I just got done watching some of the Mecum acution sales. What stuck out was the quality of the cars they had on the block. Each one had every facet of the car touched in the recent past. A 72 Dodge Challenger they stuck the camera in everywhere and the whole thing looked like it just rolled off the factory floor. If something as simple as a 72 Dodge can bring $140k, imagine the cost of doing the refurb on that, compared to the same quality of resto on a S4 928. Can you imagine stripping EVERY component down, cleaning, repairing, and installing it back on the car?

It would be like comparing checkers to chess. The cost would also be similarly higher. You can't hire someone for $20/hour to refurbish Porsche stuff. Or, maybe you could once, and then they would leave to work for double that somewhere else, and the resto would take years.

I 'restored' a 1937 Cord Beverly to workman standards, and certainly not concours level. It was years working by myself. By the time I sold it, I was upside down about $15k. It could have been much, much worse.

Maybe some day some few 928s will cross the block for big numbers. But they won't get there without serious work, time and expense. Just keeping them on the road, and in decent shape is quite a drain. Taking it up to the 90+ point level is crazy expensive.