Upper ball joints
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 119
Likes: 1
From: Brisbane
Upper ball joints
This may be a bit of a silly question.
From reading here it seems that post 1986.5 cars were not manufactured to have their upper ball joints serviced/replaced, yet there are "remanufactured" upper A arms for sale around the place.
I'm curious. If the arms are designed not be be able to have their ball joints replaced then how are these "remanufactured" units possible ?
I mean, either it's possible to replace the ball joints, or its not ? Pictures of the remanufactued units suggest they look pretty much the same as the original units, so it's not like they're slicing bits off, or welding bits on, or whathaveyou.
I am wondering as my 1980 ROW car has user serviceable upper ball joints apparently, but if I want to fit my brembo black calipers to the front I should fit the upper/lower arms and stubs from a S4 that I have laying around.
The issue is that they're condition unknown and their ball joints look/feel like they've had better days. With our crappy exchange rate (plus shipping) then some "remanufactured" arms would easily set me back way over $2000, not much less than buying new units from Porsche locally........ for ball joints !
I saw Carls steel units for sale....better price but then comments here range from "they're ok" through to " don't bother, get the factory units".
Confused.
From reading here it seems that post 1986.5 cars were not manufactured to have their upper ball joints serviced/replaced, yet there are "remanufactured" upper A arms for sale around the place.
I'm curious. If the arms are designed not be be able to have their ball joints replaced then how are these "remanufactured" units possible ?
I mean, either it's possible to replace the ball joints, or its not ? Pictures of the remanufactued units suggest they look pretty much the same as the original units, so it's not like they're slicing bits off, or welding bits on, or whathaveyou.
I am wondering as my 1980 ROW car has user serviceable upper ball joints apparently, but if I want to fit my brembo black calipers to the front I should fit the upper/lower arms and stubs from a S4 that I have laying around.
The issue is that they're condition unknown and their ball joints look/feel like they've had better days. With our crappy exchange rate (plus shipping) then some "remanufactured" arms would easily set me back way over $2000, not much less than buying new units from Porsche locally........ for ball joints !
I saw Carls steel units for sale....better price but then comments here range from "they're ok" through to " don't bother, get the factory units".
Confused.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,288
Likes: 97
From: NW Arkansas
The early upper ball joints have the retaining plate on the top of the joint that holds the cup and ball stud in place secured with a spiral spring clip with the whole top cover filled with sealant to keep water out. They are rebuild-able because you can chip out the sealant, remove the spiral retaining clip and install new bits before sealing the whole thing up by installing a standard circlip to retain the top cover, thus holding all the bits inside. The whole thing is then covered with two-part epoxy sealant to keep out dirt and water. The later upper ball joints don't use a removable clip to retain the cover plate. Instead the aluminum of the control arm is stamped over the edge of the cover plate creating a water-tight seal. Once you grind or chisel the stamped edge away to remove the worn cup and ball stud there is no simple way to retain the the new parts in the arm. Per Greg Brown the rebuilders of the later arms machine threads into the top of the ball joint socket so that a new, threaded top cover can be screwed down into the socket to retain the cup and ball stud. I'm willing to guess they use some sealant on the threads to ensure water doesn't penetrate into the joint. The rebuilder that 928 International uses also casts new bushings for the inboard pivot as part of the rebuilding process. They are very well executed. Not sure what your exchange rate is but two re-manufactured upper arms from 928 International are about $800 plus shipping and the lowers are about $600 plus shipping. Best price I can find from Porsche here in the states will get you one new arm for the price of two re-conditioned from 928 International.
Ball joints in good condition should take two hands and considerable force to push the ball stud around in the arm.
Mike
Ball joints in good condition should take two hands and considerable force to push the ball stud around in the arm.
Mike
Drifting
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,095
Likes: 28
From: Northern Virginia
So...I'm reading this response and then going back to this video:
and trying to determine if I will be able to follow the first two minutes to separate the upper ball joints, and at 19:45 to re-grease and install new boots on my S4. This video is for an older car with the epoxy sealant, but watching this again it appears replacing the boots is not impacted by the differences described below. True?
The early upper ball joints have the retaining plate on the top of the joint that holds the cup and ball stud in place secured with a spiral spring clip with the whole top cover filled with sealant to keep water out. They are rebuild-able because you can chip out the sealant, remove the spiral retaining clip and install new bits before sealing the whole thing up by installing a standard circlip to retain the top cover, thus holding all the bits inside. The whole thing is then covered with two-part epoxy sealant to keep out dirt and water. The later upper ball joints don't use a removable clip to retain the cover plate. Instead the aluminum of the control arm is stamped over the edge of the cover plate creating a water-tight seal. Once you grind or chisel the stamped edge away to remove the worn cup and ball stud there is no simple way to retain the the new parts in the arm. Per Greg Brown the rebuilders of the later arms machine threads into the top of the ball joint socket so that a new, threaded top cover can be screwed down into the socket to retain the cup and ball stud. I'm willing to guess they use some sealant on the threads to ensure water doesn't penetrate into the joint. The rebuilder that 928 International uses also casts new bushings for the inboard pivot as part of the rebuilding process. They are very well executed. Not sure what your exchange rate is but two re-manufactured upper arms from 928 International are about $800 plus shipping and the lowers are about $600 plus shipping. Best price I can find from Porsche here in the states will get you one new arm for the price of two re-conditioned from 928 International.
Ball joints in good condition should take two hands and considerable force to push the ball stud around in the arm.
Mike
Ball joints in good condition should take two hands and considerable force to push the ball stud around in the arm.
Mike
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 119
Likes: 1
From: Brisbane
So it seems. If your car is made after 86.5 then you can't service the upper ball joints apparently.
You either have to buy a whole new upper control arm from Porsche, or send it off as an exchange to get it "remanufactured".
Either way it will cost you a kidney.
You either have to buy a whole new upper control arm from Porsche, or send it off as an exchange to get it "remanufactured".
Either way it will cost you a kidney.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,288
Likes: 97
From: NW Arkansas
You can re-boot and grease the joints as shown in the video at 19:45 on both early and late cars and both upper and lower joints. However, if the boot is torn like in the picture dirt and water have been allowed into the joint for who knows how long and the cup and ball stud are likely worn as a result. I keep a very close eye on those boots every time I'm under the car and at the first sign of cracking I order new ones and get them replaced ASAP. Lots cheaper to do that than replace the joint. If you can push the ball stud around with one finger the joint is shot and needs replaced. New joints require considerable hand muscle and leverage to move the ball stud.
Mike
Mike
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Joined: Jun 2005
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From: Oman