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I know nothing about this manifold specifically; it was Carl's brainchild - I'll let him answer.
As to power, I believe we did 510 HP on the engine dyno with the stock manifold plus spacers. There is no set goal other than to exceed that number; i would be happy with an additional 50hp from this manifold but in the end that might be asking too much; we are all going to find out one way or the other if this thing works as good as it looks......
In my opinion, 560hp or 10% improvement over the ported stock manifold with 90mm throttle body should be there, as long as you spin the higher with this manifold and put a larger throttle body in it. Not that I've got much experience in this, just based on thinking about how the internal combustion engine works.
As to power, I believe we did 510 HP on the engine dyno with the stock manifold plus spacers. There is no set goal other than to exceed that number; i would be happy with an additional 50hp from this manifold
I think that will prove to be an extremely conservative number, and that this manifold's performance will surprise everyone.
Finally, a real performance intake for the 928...!
This thread is giving me some serious 6.57 L envy!
This show's what can happen when a dedicated owner/restorer teams up with an artful fabricator and an imaginative engineer to produce something that has never existed...
Well done!
I can't wait to see the dyne numbers and more importantly, how well it drives!
This thread is giving me some serious 6.57 L envy!
This show's what can happen when a dedicated owner/restorer teams up with an artful fabricator and an imaginative engineer to produce something that has never existed...
Well done!
I can't wait to see the dyne numbers and more importantly, how well it drives!
Thanks!
I was just not willing to accept the dyno numbers we did on the extrude honed manifold as being the gospel.
There's a peculiar thing going on in the 928 community where there seems to be a blanket acceptance of certain aftermarket parts, and it there is no real development for some of these things because it costs money.
In the 928 world, there were essentially three manifolds that existed:
-Bone Stock
- A modified stock manifold either with spacers or some other sort of trickery.
- The legendary Carbon manifold, which was made by the gods themselves, could never be duplicated, and while it produced excellent results, it could not be bought by mere mortals, it's creator was lost to history, and it turned into a holy relic that was bestowed into the hands of a chosen few.
I was simply not willing to accept that, which is why I funded the development of a new manifold. If it works, you will ALL be able to buy it.
This is kind of my MO. No one was making Porsche Flat 6 engine cases either, and the community just accepted it even though you couldn't find a 3.6 case to save your life. So I decided to.
Now the only people who make Porsche motor castings on the planet are Porsche......
I was just not willing to accept the dyno numbers we did on the extrude honed manifold as being the gospel.
There's a peculiar thing going on in the 928 community where there seems to be a blanket acceptance of certain aftermarket parts, and it there is no real development for some of these things because it costs money.
In the 928 world, there were essentially three manifolds that existed:
-Bone Stock
- A modified stock manifold either with spacers or some other sort of trickery.
- The legendary Carbon manifold, which was made by the gods themselves, could never be duplicated, and while it produced excellent results, it could not be bought by mere mortals, it's creator was lost to history, and it turned into a holy relic that was bestowed into the hands of a chosen few.
I was simply not willing to accept that, which is why I funded the development of a new manifold. If it works, you will ALL be able to buy it.
This is kind of my MO. No one was making Porsche Flat 6 engine cases either, and the community just accepted it even though you couldn't find a 3.6 case to save your life. So I decided to.
Now the only people who make Porsche motor castings on the planet are Porsche......
and ME.
There are also have a dozen ITB setups running around... and several not running like mine still in the assembly stage
Can you let us know the runner length and runner inside diameter?
The ID is the most important, and I'm just trying to gauge if there's any chance of it working on a 5.0.
Sway,
At this time the numbers for this manifold are proprietary and confidential. Let's talk after we do some tests....
I don't think this manifold would benefit a 5.0. I have to believe Porsche squeezed all the power they could out of the stock manifold, but I could be wrong.
Sway, At this time the numbers for this manifold are proprietary and confidential. Let's talk after we do some tests....
I don't think this manifold would benefit a 5.0. I have to believe Porsche squeezed all the power they could out of the stock manifold, but I could be wrong.
I don't think that they took the most power out of the 32-valve models' intake manifolds.
I think they did the S4 manifold the way they did it because they needed a certain (large) amount of torque at very low rpms to create a single engine that's nice to drive with both automatic and manual transmissions.
The first iteration of the manifold was actually on the S3. They patented the true dual plan intake runner arrangement of S3 that has 40cm pipes (50cm total induction length) and equally-space pulses in each plenum. The S3 manifold produces the two Helmholtz tuning peaks.
The second iteration S4 added the second zip tube with the resonance flappy valve. They also made the manifold more compact, which lead to unequal length runners (four 20cm and four 30cm runners). The flappy open mode adds the torque peak in the middle of the two Helmholtz peaks:
I'm convinced that a long-runner single plane manifold with runner diameters sized correctly for 5.0L engine would make more average power between the shift points than the S4 intake. In fact, Porsche made such a manifold for their S3 Group-B homologation efforts. A low quality photo of the manifold:
If you could cast a copy of this intake manifold sized for the 5.0L models such that stock MAF and airbox could be used, I think there would be a market for it. There might be enough people out there who aren't ever going to run big cams, headers, and ITBs but might want something little extra at the top end. But who knows.
I don't think that they took the most power out of the 32-valve models' intake manifolds.
I think they did the S4 manifold the way they did it because they needed a certain (large) amount of torque at very low rpms to create a single engine that's nice to drive with both automatic and manual transmissions.
The first iteration of the manifold was actually on the S3. They patented the true dual plan intake runner arrangement of S3 that has 40cm pipes (50cm total induction length) and equally-space pulses in each plenum. The S3 manifold produces the two Helmholtz tuning peaks.
The second iteration S4 added the second zip tube with the resonance flappy valve. They also made the manifold more compact, which lead to unequal length runners (four 20cm and four 30cm runners). The flappy open mode adds the torque peak in the middle of the two Helmholtz peaks:
I'm convinced that a long-runner single plane manifold with runner diameters sized correctly for 5.0L engine would make more average power between the shift points than the S4 intake. In fact, Porsche made such a manifold for their S3 Group-B homologation efforts. A low quality photo of the manifold:
If you could cast a copy of this intake manifold sized for the 5.0L models such that stock MAF and airbox could be used, I think there would be a market for it. There might be enough people out there who aren't ever going to run big cams, headers, and ITBs but might want something little extra at the top end. But who knows.
I think Greg Brown is making an intake manifold lik that last one but welded as it is cheaper to make them at low volume than a cast. Too bad someone doesn't make one out of plastic.
I think Greg Brown is making an intake manifold lik that last one but welded as it is cheaper to make them at low volume than a cast. Too bad someone doesn't make one out of plastic.
Only the crude prototype that was tested on Rob and Jim's engine was welded aluminum, which left quite a bit on the table. The laminar ait flow, through smooth aluminum, was a huge problem for this prototype. The prototype manifold flat "ran out of airflow" on Rob's engine.
The "production" version (soon) will be very different.
11-03-2017, 04:29 PM
