Motor mounts
11-01-2016, 12:59 PM
#31
Earned myself a lifetime customer in much the same way.
Car in Arkansas was sent to a well known "specialist" in Tulsa due to a really bad engine vibration. They diagnosed it as a bad LH. Yea I know. Follow along. So the guy in Arkansas called Roger asking about a new LH and we told him to send the old one down to me for testing. Tested good and shipped it back to the shop in Tulsa.
Shop owner in Tulsa calls me cussing me out, tells me I have no clue what I'm doing, that he's been doing this 30 years etc. I asked him how he tested the LH as they were either good or bad. He said he had the Porsche tool so I asked him what version his KTS 300 was. He'd never heard of that tool. Or Jenkins or Sharktuner.
Told the customer to get it out of his shop and find another one to work on it. Long story a bit longer, I get the car, change the routing of some vacuum lines and the car runs great but could feel the vibration. Put a cut up timing belt under the engine and the cross member and the vibration went away. Told the guy and he asked me what he owed me. Said $15.00. He laughed and had me to the timing belt job, motor mount job and has sent me 4 cars since then.
Idiot shop owners thinking a vibration is anything but failed mounts are amusing. Seeing a vendor say a solid mount metal mount is a good thing while leaving the transmission mounts rubber is even more laughable.
Car in Arkansas was sent to a well known "specialist" in Tulsa due to a really bad engine vibration. They diagnosed it as a bad LH. Yea I know. Follow along. So the guy in Arkansas called Roger asking about a new LH and we told him to send the old one down to me for testing. Tested good and shipped it back to the shop in Tulsa.
Shop owner in Tulsa calls me cussing me out, tells me I have no clue what I'm doing, that he's been doing this 30 years etc. I asked him how he tested the LH as they were either good or bad. He said he had the Porsche tool so I asked him what version his KTS 300 was. He'd never heard of that tool. Or Jenkins or Sharktuner.
Told the customer to get it out of his shop and find another one to work on it. Long story a bit longer, I get the car, change the routing of some vacuum lines and the car runs great but could feel the vibration. Put a cut up timing belt under the engine and the cross member and the vibration went away. Told the guy and he asked me what he owed me. Said $15.00. He laughed and had me to the timing belt job, motor mount job and has sent me 4 cars since then.
Idiot shop owners thinking a vibration is anything but failed mounts are amusing. Seeing a vendor say a solid mount metal mount is a good thing while leaving the transmission mounts rubber is even more laughable.
I've had 3 people with GTS vehicles come into my shop, insisting that they needed an engine rebuild, because they had a terrible vibration and they were told it was an internal engine vibration. They decided that this was such a major expenditure that they wanted someone with a long track record of rebuilding 928 engines to do this job and came for me to rebuild their engines.
They actually had made appointments, with Mary, for me to rebuild their engines.
Needless to say, they were pretty happy when they found out all they needed was a set of motor mounts.....
That's pretty terrible, my book.
And yes, you are correct. Unless the motor mounts are so bad that the entire engine is revolving in the chassis, spinning the entire engine instead of the flywheel, the amount of power transfered to the transmssion in the rear is exactly the same....regardless of what mount is used and what condition it is in.
No change in throttle response is going to happen.
But it sounded good.....
They actually had made appointments, with Mary, for me to rebuild their engines.
Needless to say, they were pretty happy when they found out all they needed was a set of motor mounts.....
That's pretty terrible, my book.
And yes, you are correct. Unless the motor mounts are so bad that the entire engine is revolving in the chassis, spinning the entire engine instead of the flywheel, the amount of power transfered to the transmssion in the rear is exactly the same....regardless of what mount is used and what condition it is in.
No change in throttle response is going to happen.
But it sounded good.....
11-01-2016, 01:41 PM
#32
Nordschleife Master
Lots of drivability improvements are about driver experience and not actual performance changes. The car sounds better or vibrates differently and people think it's "more powerful." Works the other way, too. Fix an exhaust leak and the car is quieter so must be slower.
Last edited by GlenL; 11-01-2016 at 06:46 PM.
11-01-2016, 03:37 PM
#33
Developer
I thought I worded my answers very carefully, but I can see I did not reach everyone.
No-where did I say that solid mounts increase HP. They do not.
We have specifically stated that solid motor mounts appeal to some, not all - and why. They have some benefits over rubber mounts, but they are not for everyone, which is why we offer a good rubber motor mount also.
Next time you get to walk through the paddock full of race cars, count all the rubber motor mounts you can find. I'd be surprised if you find any. However, I will remind all that parts and designs for racing do not always translate to the street well. It depends on the expectations of the owner, and what attributes/behavior he or she deems desirable.
No-where did I say that solid mounts increase HP. They do not.
We have specifically stated that solid motor mounts appeal to some, not all - and why. They have some benefits over rubber mounts, but they are not for everyone, which is why we offer a good rubber motor mount also.
Next time you get to walk through the paddock full of race cars, count all the rubber motor mounts you can find. I'd be surprised if you find any. However, I will remind all that parts and designs for racing do not always translate to the street well. It depends on the expectations of the owner, and what attributes/behavior he or she deems desirable.
11-02-2016, 03:57 AM
#35
Drifting
I put in a pair of $20 Anchor 2698 Hydraulics from RockAuto ten years ago. I was assured they wouldn't last more than a couple of years.
Of course they are still leak free and working beautifully (and my car is not a garage queen - it has done lots of track days and trips to the Ring since then).
It's not all about vibration, the best thing about hydraulic mounts is the way they make manual gear changes so smooth, by acting as a transmission shock absorber. It seems very likely to me that this increases the life of several much more expensive components.
Of course they are still leak free and working beautifully (and my car is not a garage queen - it has done lots of track days and trips to the Ring since then).
It's not all about vibration, the best thing about hydraulic mounts is the way they make manual gear changes so smooth, by acting as a transmission shock absorber. It seems very likely to me that this increases the life of several much more expensive components.
11-02-2016, 10:03 AM
#36
Three Wheelin'
I can't be the only one besides Carl himself that has actually installed and used his solid motor mounts can I? If someone besides me has actual experience please chime in.
This is what I can tell you from ACTUAL EXPERIENCE, not "I guess" or "I think", I actually used these mounts for more than two years on the street and maybe I'm numb from the waste down, or maybe the neck up but I could not tell any difference between the solid aluminum mounts and the Volvo mounts I now use. It may be that my engine runs smoother than other cars but I highly doubt it. The only reason I changed the mounts out was because of convenience, I had the engine out and it was convenient to change them for something more stock. If I had to change out motor mounts and wasn't taking the engine out (and didn't care about whether my car was completely stock or not), I would use the aluminum mounts as the amount of room they give made installing them easy.
Like I said I'd really like to hear others who have actual experience.
This is what I can tell you from ACTUAL EXPERIENCE, not "I guess" or "I think", I actually used these mounts for more than two years on the street and maybe I'm numb from the waste down, or maybe the neck up but I could not tell any difference between the solid aluminum mounts and the Volvo mounts I now use. It may be that my engine runs smoother than other cars but I highly doubt it. The only reason I changed the mounts out was because of convenience, I had the engine out and it was convenient to change them for something more stock. If I had to change out motor mounts and wasn't taking the engine out (and didn't care about whether my car was completely stock or not), I would use the aluminum mounts as the amount of room they give made installing them easy.
Like I said I'd really like to hear others who have actual experience.
11-02-2016, 10:33 AM
#37
Administrator - "Tyson"
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For many people the risk isn't worth the effort it takes to re-install them, go with what has been proven to be consistently good from our vendors. If these were an easy 5 minute install, we would all buy the absolute cheapest and take a chance.
Originally Posted by Carl Fausett
Next time you get to walk through the paddock full of race cars, count all the rubber motor mounts you can find. I'd be surprised if you find any.
This is what I can tell you from ACTUAL EXPERIENCE, not "I guess" or "I think", I actually used these mounts for more than two years on the street and maybe I'm numb from the waste down, or maybe the neck up but I could not tell any difference between the solid aluminum mounts and the Volvo mounts I now use.
The bigger concern is stress on the engine & chassis. Unfortunately that question cannot be answered until something breaks. So the question remains, are the benefits of solid mounts "worth" the risk? to most, no.
Even for my friend who builds all out non-street driven Corvette race cars, he prefers poly mounts. It just seems unnecessary to install such items on a street driven 928 or even a track car that is not fully caged & reinforced.
11-02-2016, 01:46 PM
#38
Chronic Tool Dropper
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The original question:
The OP asked for opinions from "anyone have any experience with solid motor mounts". In return, only one qualified user has responded, and one vendor, the one who actually sells the solid motor mounts in the OP's question.
Has anyone, pro or amateur, had to remove a set of Carl's solid motor mounts to satisfy a customer complaint or request? Those might be valid posts to the thread. Other posts are tangent at best, noise otherwise.
IMHO anyway.
Good morning folks!
Does anyone have any experience with solid motor mounts? I had some placed on my old 930 and they did make the car shift beautifully. I also found out that the motor tray needed to be reinforced....
Is this the same story for 928's? If not, how has your experience been with solid mounts, good or bad? Finally, which ones are the most recommended?
Thank you
Miguel
Does anyone have any experience with solid motor mounts? I had some placed on my old 930 and they did make the car shift beautifully. I also found out that the motor tray needed to be reinforced....
Is this the same story for 928's? If not, how has your experience been with solid mounts, good or bad? Finally, which ones are the most recommended?
Thank you
Miguel
Has anyone, pro or amateur, had to remove a set of Carl's solid motor mounts to satisfy a customer complaint or request? Those might be valid posts to the thread. Other posts are tangent at best, noise otherwise.
IMHO anyway.
11-02-2016, 02:57 PM
#39
Instructor
Not just yours. I know I would also appreciate not having to read through multitudes of posts in various threads that seem to serve no other purpose but to try to run off/discredit business competitors.
Having a decent price is good no doubt, but having a decent attitude is better.
IMHO anyway.
Having a decent price is good no doubt, but having a decent attitude is better.
IMHO anyway.
11-02-2016, 03:12 PM
#40
Drifting
If I post: "Need to replace Clutch - How do I Pull the Engine?", eventually I will be more grateful for a three word "No need to" post than a very detailed tutorial on engine removal.
Even if what I posted was noise as far as the OP is concerned, we all know that these threads are searched and read by many more people over time, so that info is likely to be useful to someone.
Even if what I posted was noise as far as the OP is concerned, we all know that these threads are searched and read by many more people over time, so that info is likely to be useful to someone.
11-02-2016, 03:27 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
To keep things in context, if I was getting ready to buy metal motor mounts because someone said race cars use them, and a few others chimed in with some of the counterpoints, I'd be happy to know more about the trade-offs.
11-02-2016, 03:45 PM
#42
Instructor
11-02-2016, 03:47 PM
#43
Rennlist Member
11-02-2016, 04:18 PM
#44
Instructor
The important part/difference being that the race car part you included in your post was NO part of the OP's original post...but was instead added by one of the individuals who was adding the noise.