No love for the 928...again
06-29-2016, 08:24 AM
#31
Rennlist Member
I have been driving 928s for 20 years now, why, because I really like the looks of the car and how it drives. My first 928 bought in 1996 with 23k mikes cost $25k and sold it 17 years later for $18k, after putting an additional 75k miles. I kept track of all expensive abd maintanence and it averaged ~$120 per month!
I'm now into my second 928, and even though it is worth more now than I paid 3 years ago, it will probably be my kids problem what to do with it when I'm gone...you just need to drive them and enjoy them.
I'm now into my second 928, and even though it is worth more now than I paid 3 years ago, it will probably be my kids problem what to do with it when I'm gone...you just need to drive them and enjoy them.
06-29-2016, 06:13 PM
#32
Burning Brakes
According to http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm it's about $120,500 in today's dollars.
Hugo
Hugo
Finally, I don't buy anything as investments. Not even farmland. I only buy into the culture and fun of what ever I am doing.
Good thing, as I agree with the article that 928s are probably not good investments.
06-30-2016, 12:16 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
I truly believe that one of the 928's faults as a investment is that fact that it is so contemporary in presentation.
Until fairly recently, the 928 was on par with its modern day contemporaries in terms of luxury and performance, albeit it got there with old school technology pushed to the limit. When collectors look at an aircooled 911, they are looking for a nostalgic experience. There's an "acceptance" that an older 911 is going to perform short of its modern day contemporaries, and in fact, that is part of the experience that is sought after.
The 928 doesn't catch that same break. We expect the 928 to be on par with its modern day contemporaries, not a trip back in time. With modern GT's providing so much more in terms of performance and luxury, and slowly distancing themselves from the 928's incredibly high capabilities, it won't be long before the 928 finally gets to retire from the race of "keeping up with modern expectations". When that truly happens, and the 928 finally has a niche in the performance/luxury continuum as opposed to an ongoing battle vs. modern BMW's, A/M's, Mercedes, even the modern day 911's which are practically 928's on paper, you'd better hold onto your hats because that is when the prices will really start to climb.
Until fairly recently, the 928 was on par with its modern day contemporaries in terms of luxury and performance, albeit it got there with old school technology pushed to the limit. When collectors look at an aircooled 911, they are looking for a nostalgic experience. There's an "acceptance" that an older 911 is going to perform short of its modern day contemporaries, and in fact, that is part of the experience that is sought after.
The 928 doesn't catch that same break. We expect the 928 to be on par with its modern day contemporaries, not a trip back in time. With modern GT's providing so much more in terms of performance and luxury, and slowly distancing themselves from the 928's incredibly high capabilities, it won't be long before the 928 finally gets to retire from the race of "keeping up with modern expectations". When that truly happens, and the 928 finally has a niche in the performance/luxury continuum as opposed to an ongoing battle vs. modern BMW's, A/M's, Mercedes, even the modern day 911's which are practically 928's on paper, you'd better hold onto your hats because that is when the prices will really start to climb.
06-30-2016, 01:30 PM
#34
There are some great points in the article.
GT vs Sports Car: Collectors tend to gravitate to cars that raced with success. Sports cars have always transitioned to the track with much greater success than GT cars.
Additionally, As racers themselves, McQueen and others who owned 911's and 356's before them lend credibility to the 'star' factor. Let's face it, vintage cars are partially an irrational purchase.
On the other side of it, I always find it curious that "experts" largely look at past appreciation when rating for future investment potential.
?????!!!!!
Pick your category, but a prudent investor wouldn't look at the PAST performance of a stock, apartment building, or other investment as a guage for what it will do in the future. What a prudent investor would do is consider the price and expenses and calculate that in a given period of time that the asset could be sold for a reasonable profit. The reason "distressed" property purchases can yield high profits is precisely because they were purchased inexpensively compared to the market.
So if investment is among my goals when purchasing a vintage car, I think I would consider it a success if I bought a 246 Dino BEFORE they weren't just a pretty 6 cylinder Fiat for $50k that experts said will "never be considered an investment and are expensive to maintain..." than if I bought it for $300+k in more recent years now that it is considered "investment grade"
I submit that lack of appreciation has almost nothing to do with the lack of competent mechanics. If there were a market for it, an opportunity for profit would exist and a savvy mechanic(s) would fill it. I could argue that we are just beginning in the last few years to see exactly that. Straight economics 101, equilibrium is what the market seeks in the long run.
In the end, rationalizing that a given 928 "should" be worth as much as a given 911 will only end in frustration. Comparing the similar performance of a '78 928 and a '78 Turbo 911 and concluding they should be worth about the same is oversimplification (I am not suggesting that anyone here thinks this, but I have heard that kind of rationalization on many occasions.)
The appreciation of the 911 market is virtually uncorrelated to the 928 market, imvho. With that said, I have no doubt that 928's will appreciate nicely in the long run and, as a percentage increase, will hold their own toward the top of that appreciation curve.
GT vs Sports Car: Collectors tend to gravitate to cars that raced with success. Sports cars have always transitioned to the track with much greater success than GT cars.
Additionally, As racers themselves, McQueen and others who owned 911's and 356's before them lend credibility to the 'star' factor. Let's face it, vintage cars are partially an irrational purchase.
On the other side of it, I always find it curious that "experts" largely look at past appreciation when rating for future investment potential.
?????!!!!!
Pick your category, but a prudent investor wouldn't look at the PAST performance of a stock, apartment building, or other investment as a guage for what it will do in the future. What a prudent investor would do is consider the price and expenses and calculate that in a given period of time that the asset could be sold for a reasonable profit. The reason "distressed" property purchases can yield high profits is precisely because they were purchased inexpensively compared to the market.
So if investment is among my goals when purchasing a vintage car, I think I would consider it a success if I bought a 246 Dino BEFORE they weren't just a pretty 6 cylinder Fiat for $50k that experts said will "never be considered an investment and are expensive to maintain..." than if I bought it for $300+k in more recent years now that it is considered "investment grade"
I submit that lack of appreciation has almost nothing to do with the lack of competent mechanics. If there were a market for it, an opportunity for profit would exist and a savvy mechanic(s) would fill it. I could argue that we are just beginning in the last few years to see exactly that. Straight economics 101, equilibrium is what the market seeks in the long run.
In the end, rationalizing that a given 928 "should" be worth as much as a given 911 will only end in frustration. Comparing the similar performance of a '78 928 and a '78 Turbo 911 and concluding they should be worth about the same is oversimplification (I am not suggesting that anyone here thinks this, but I have heard that kind of rationalization on many occasions.)
The appreciation of the 911 market is virtually uncorrelated to the 928 market, imvho. With that said, I have no doubt that 928's will appreciate nicely in the long run and, as a percentage increase, will hold their own toward the top of that appreciation curve.
06-30-2016, 05:14 PM
#35
Administrator - "Tyson"
Lifetime Rennlist
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Lifetime Rennlist
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1. Values are going up
2. Values are going down
3. No Change
If interest spikes so to (usually) does demand. Even if it's a small spike that's still option 1. Again....you seam to be the only person around here who is constantly associating a rise in value with kings ransom money. The reality is somewhere in the middle and that is where most of us are.
"They" - could you be less specific? Some may have, most did not......but you love to chastise those who maybe have a car that has gone up 25% because that's not a big enough jump for you to justify the excitement.
What happened to the car that was worth $10k when the other car was worth $5k is now worth $10k? Is it still only worth $10k or now $15k or did it to double in price to $20k? Can you break all this down for me by average model year so it could be more clear? You seam to have this all sorted out with some kind of secret formula. It would be nice if you shared such data.
Again, your assumption that any talk about 928's going up in value is with an end goal of making money on them. Your comment about the cost to repair and maintenance being flat (if not going up) is spot on and why many of us are recommending people get in on the ground floor before they go up....even a little bit.
07-16-2016, 06:20 AM
#37
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I like to work on stuff...
I bought the car to work on. I am sure when I am 70 and hopefully still turning wrenches, there will still be something to do.
I also like the 928 for many other reasons, performance, comfort and in a town of 120,000 I have not seen another.
The above reasons also go for my 77 Harley Davidson FLH. Not too many Shovelheads around anymore. The bike is nearly done after a rewire and lighting additions and an old Pogo Style Solo seat addition. Revamping the clutch at this time and it should be done.
Like the Rennlist Forums there is plenty of support at Shovelheads USA for any questions and upgrades I may have.
I don't care about value at all.
Here is a pic, should anyone care:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y5/...psdb05a53b.jpg
I also like the 928 for many other reasons, performance, comfort and in a town of 120,000 I have not seen another.
The above reasons also go for my 77 Harley Davidson FLH. Not too many Shovelheads around anymore. The bike is nearly done after a rewire and lighting additions and an old Pogo Style Solo seat addition. Revamping the clutch at this time and it should be done.
Like the Rennlist Forums there is plenty of support at Shovelheads USA for any questions and upgrades I may have.
I don't care about value at all.
Here is a pic, should anyone care:
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y5/...psdb05a53b.jpg