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Is the 928 100% a Porsche design?

 
Old 05-03-2016, 03:50 AM
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GT6ixer
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Default Is the 928 100% a Porsche design?

I know the 928 was a "clean sheet" design but are any of its parts derived from VW or Audi sourced engineering? I have to imagine there is a bit or two that the engineers grabbed from the bin that could trace its lineage to a non-Porsche design. But hey, maybe not?
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Old 05-03-2016, 04:33 AM
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Depends how far you wanna go.

Round wheels!

Totally new concept with the 928.
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Old 05-03-2016, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by GT6ixer View Post
I know the 928 was a "clean sheet" design but are any of its parts derived from VW or Audi sourced engineering? I have to imagine there is a bit or two that the engineers grabbed from the bin that could trace its lineage to a non-Porsche design. But hey, maybe not?
If you can find a copy ... read The 928 Development Story (I have a copy brand new in the box... even has the Porsche part number on the front).

The Porsche 928 was 100% designed and engineered by Porsche... every piece, bit, and part.



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Old 05-03-2016, 07:32 AM
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Everything has some degree of being derivative however. For instance, Tony Lapine was inspired by the Lamborghini Miura for the headlights. I have also heard that the engine was a Buick developed power plant (or one of the other US auto makers). Still, it is widely accepted as Porsche's first true "clean sheet" design.
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Old 05-03-2016, 07:54 AM
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I thought the headlights came from the early Austin-Healey Sprite.

The automatic gearbox was developed by Roger Tyson; he's still collecting royalties on them. If I recall, he even named one of his daughters after it.
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Old 05-03-2016, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by linderpat View Post
I have also heard that the engine was a Buick developed power plant (or one of the other US auto makers).
That s not entirely correct... according to what Porsche has published in Project 928: The 928 Development Story The closest any American design came to any part of the 928 engine is as follows (taken from page 30-31 of the 928 Development Story in the Engine Development section)--

"Extended service intervals and moderate maintenance demands were key factors in the 928 Project book--they were attributes which stood alongside the long term guarantee as key features of Porsche's philosophy for development, production and sales. Hydraulic adjustment of valve play seemed a reasonable way to fulfill such requirements in the valve train realm. It was once common to exclusive sedans (such as Packard) and meanwhile had become widespread on American cars. For the 1966 project where a hard-to-reach engine had to be as service-free as possible. Porsche had already posited valve followers with hydraulic adjustment. Thus the necessary experience was ready to hand although the actual design departed from usual paths by fitting the hydraulics to the cup tappets which were moving elements. An eleven pound spring in the center of the cup tappet was designed to balance out valve play increase or decrease, up to a working stroke of 0.12 inches."

That is about as close as anything came to American design anything for the 928 engine, according to Porsche.

Originally Posted by Adk46 View Post
I thought the headlights came from the early Austin-Healey Sprite.
No...
The 928 headlights were purely inspired by the Lamborghini Miura, and the overall concept for not covering them was deliberate, so that they could be washed each time the body of the car was being washed.

Originally Posted by Adk46 View Post
The automatic gearbox was developed by Roger Tyson; he's still collecting royalties on them. If I recall, he even named one of his daughters after it.

The one manufacturer that Porsche collaborated for development on any part of the 928 during its development and engineering was on the transaxle which was born out of the Mercedes Benz 350SL.

Project 928: The 928 Development Story may be found at this link for your reading pleasure-- https://issuu.com/pawikander/docs/project_928


A copy of the book, if you can find it, may set you back a few hundred dollars.
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Old 05-03-2016, 10:10 AM
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Bosch CIS was an off-the-shelf product. I believe it was first designed for VW 4 cylinder, but was implemented by many Euro car makers. The Lobro style CV axles were again an off-the-shelf solution to the function. The first use of the Lobro type CV goes all the way back to the 50s with Puegeot, I think. Technically these would be major components not 'designed' by the 928 group. I can't recall who did the first round of brakes for the 928, but doubt it was a 928 specific design.
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Old 05-03-2016, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by DoubleNutz View Post
That s not entirely correct... according to what Porsche has published in Project 928: The 928 Development Story The closest any American design came to any part of the 928 engine is as follows (taken from page 30-31 of the 928 Development Story in the Engine Development section)--

"Extended service intervals and moderate maintenance demands were key factors in the 928 Project book--they were attributes which stood alongside the long term guarantee as key features of Porsche's philosophy for development, production and sales. Hydraulic adjustment of valve play seemed a reasonable way to fulfill such requirements in the valve train realm. It was once common to exclusive sedans (such as Packard) and meanwhile had become widespread on American cars. For the 1966 project where a hard-to-reach engine had to be as service-free as possible. Porsche had already posited valve followers with hydraulic adjustment. Thus the necessary experience was ready to hand although the actual design departed from usual paths by fitting the hydraulics to the cup tappets which were moving elements. An eleven pound spring in the center of the cup tappet was designed to balance out valve play increase or decrease, up to a working stroke of 0.12 inches."

That is about as close as anything came to American design anything for the 928 engine, according to Porsche.
Having been inside a 928 engine and a Buick (Rover) V8 I can tell you they share nothing except for both being made out of aluminum.
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Old 05-03-2016, 10:52 AM
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Love the drawing on Page 62 showing a person jammed into the token rear seat !
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Old 05-03-2016, 11:20 AM
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Never heard of that book DoubleNutz but it looks full of just the kind of detail and info that I love to learn about. Definitely gonna look into getting a copy.

So was the autobox a Mercedes sourced part or just influenced by a Mercedes design?
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Old 05-03-2016, 11:21 AM
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The Porsche 928 was 100% designed and engineered by Porsche... every piece, bit, and part.
Mostly correct but not totally correct.
Lots of small parts - mainly connectors are Mercedes or Audi/VW.
A lot of the Mercedes gearbox parts are standard Mercedes parts and others with Porsche numbers can be backtracked to Mercedes numbers. Some are, of course, unique Porsche parts.
ISV is also a BMW part on the S3 cars.
As already said CIS parts are also used on other cars.
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Old 05-03-2016, 11:22 AM
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So was the RogerBox a Mercedes sourced part or just influenced by a Mercedes design?
Corrected that for you - yes it was Mercedes sourced gearbox.
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Old 05-03-2016, 11:50 AM
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The infamous interior lights...911 632 102 00 are 911 parts as is anything else with a 911 part # . The aluminum alloy block material alusil was used on other engines but completely different castings. Chevy Vega comes to mind.
And it makes sense that the automatics were outsourced given the rather limited experience Porsche had with automatics......and the likely expectation that few would ever buy a Porsche fitted with one !!
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Old 05-03-2016, 12:35 PM
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There is no such thing as a vehicle 100% designed by a car company. Fuel injection, ignition, connectors, wiper blades, washer pumps, etc , are all made by outside companies. There is always something that doesn't make sense to redesign....
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Old 05-03-2016, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 69gaugeman View Post
There is no such thing as a vehicle 100% designed by a car company. Fuel injection, ignition, connectors, wiper blades, washer pumps, etc , are all made by outside companies. There is always something that doesn't make sense to redesign....
The closest you will ever get is a Pagani or Koenigsegg, and even those will have some random bits sourced from somewhere. Even with a car company making the turn signal stalk about of billet aluminum, I doubt they are making their own relays.
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