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'83 928s starting help

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Old 04-05-2016, 05:25 PM
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gingy
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Would messed up relays explain why it runs without the MAF? I mean, she sounds beautiful when it's disconnected.
Old 04-05-2016, 05:33 PM
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soontobered84
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Oops! Just saw that Alan's 1 page fuse and relay chart was copyrighted.

Deleted this post that linked to it.

However here is the thread where it resides:

https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...%2Frelay+chart

Last edited by soontobered84; 04-05-2016 at 05:46 PM. Reason: copyrighted material
Old 04-05-2016, 05:34 PM
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Mongo
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Well it wouldn't hurt to have a new L-Jet relay (XVI) and Fuel Pump relay (XVII).

These cars also had a cold start system with a cold start injector. I have no experience with the cold start system on the car, but it could also cause numerous running issues. Some people have disconnected the cold start injector to troubleshoot. Does anything look disconnected under the intake manifold?
Old 04-05-2016, 06:03 PM
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gingy
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Originally Posted by Mongo
Well it wouldn't hurt to have a new L-Jet relay (XVI) and Fuel Pump relay (XVII).

These cars also had a cold start system with a cold start injector. I have no experience with the cold start system on the car, but it could also cause numerous running issues. Some people have disconnected the cold start injector to troubleshoot. Does anything look disconnected under the intake manifold?
I don't see any disconnects down in there.
I checked the wires running from the airflow meter, and there are no breaks in any of the wires. I really don't want to have to get new relays if I they aren't needed.
Old 04-05-2016, 06:06 PM
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Mongo
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This thread may be helpful for you

https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...t-on-cold.html
1983 Porsche 928s - Bad start on cold
Old 04-06-2016, 07:37 AM
  #21  
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"Relays, relays, relays." You need a new starter relay. XIII position on the panel.
Old 04-06-2016, 07:21 PM
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Imo000
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Mong, stop giving out guess advices or recycled information that cause nothing but confusion.

Let's start from the begining. Does the engine run at 2000rpm on it's own (when the AFM) is removed or do you have to keep the throttle open? What did the air filter look like when you removed it? Any sign of a field mouse nest?
Old 04-06-2016, 07:32 PM
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mark kibort
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Originally Posted by gingy
Hey, all
This is my first post here, so I'll start by giving a little back story. I'm 17, and picked up a 928 a couple of weeks ago. I've done quite a bit of work on it so far. But, it will not idle. The only way it will run is with starter fluid, or if I disconnect the Mass airflow sensor. I have cleaned all the plugs, replaced the fuel pump, and filter as well. I also tested the relay for the fuel pump, and used a noid light to make sure the injectors are getting signal. I am getting fuel and spark because it idles at 2,000 rpm when the airflow sensor is disconnected or if the door of the sensor is propped open. I just bought a new MAF online, and I'm still having the same issue. I am pretty good with engines and repairs, and doing all the work on it myself. Any tips or leads in the right direction would be greatly appriciated. Thanks in advance, guys. It's great to be part of the club.
if you can run the car with the "barn door" proped open, then its probably the TEmp II sensor being bad.

you can measure its resistance and it shoud be something like 1500ohms.

stop calling the AFM a MAF, as that can be confusing.. you have an 83, so that is usuaing the L-jet AFM for air flow metering.

the fact that the barn door of the AFM being open helps it run, shows it lacking fuel. the temp II sensor if not working, will not give proper mixture and thats why the opening of the barn door works. use a screwdriver and push it through.. does it run? if so, its tempII
Old 04-06-2016, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Imo000
Mong, stop giving out guess advices or recycled information that cause nothing but confusion.

Let's start from the begining. Does the engine run at 2000rpm on it's own (when the AFM) is removed or do you have to keep the throttle open? What did the air filter look like when you removed it? Any sign of a field mouse nest?
you should stop asking silly questions.. air filter check? really? wouldnt matter if it had diapers i the air box. that wont make it not start.
Old 04-06-2016, 07:53 PM
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gingy
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Originally Posted by Imo000
Mong, stop giving out guess advices or recycled information that cause nothing but confusion.

Let's start from the begining. Does the engine run at 2000rpm on it's own (when the AFM) is removed or do you have to keep the throttle open? What did the air filter look like when you removed it? Any sign of a field mouse nest?
Yeah, it runs all by it's self with the AFM removed, but will not stay running as soon as it's plugged in. The air filter was in great shape, and there was a nest(at least I think that's what it was) under where the AFM was, but no sign of chewed wires.
Old 04-06-2016, 08:01 PM
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gingy
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Originally Posted by mark kibort
if you can run the car with the "barn door" proped open, then its probably the TEmp II sensor being bad.

you can measure its resistance and it shoud be something like 1500ohms.

stop calling the AFM a MAF, as that can be confusing.. you have an 83, so that is usuaing the L-jet AFM for air flow metering.

the fact that the barn door of the AFM being open helps it run, shows it lacking fuel. the temp II sensor if not working, will not give proper mixture and thats why the opening of the barn door works. use a screwdriver and push it through.. does it run? if so, its tempII
It is able to run with it propped open, so what you're saying makes sense. And, from what I've read, the temp II goes out pretty often. How would I check it? It is the plug right on the front of the engine, in the water cooling system, correct? And, would it just be and OHM meter on each pin of it? Sorry about the AFM vs MAF, there are just so many part names.
Old 04-07-2016, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by mark kibort
you should stop asking silly questions.. air filter check? really? wouldnt matter if it had diapers i the air box. that wont make it not start.
**** off Mark! If field mice set up camp in the filter box, they probably made their way down into the rest of the intake manifold and stored outer stuff in there, choking the engine. Unlike you, I've seen this in person and is documented here, that's why I asked. Start with the basics, air, fuel ignition and see where that leads. Easiest is the air filter check and go from there.
Old 04-07-2016, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by gingy
Yeah, it runs all by it's self with the AFM removed, but will not stay running as soon as it's plugged in. The air filter was in great shape, and there was a nest(at least I think that's what it was) under where the AFM was, but no sign of chewed wires.
Nothing inside the intake manifold she the AFM is removed?
Does it seem to run better when the engine warmed up? Tried plugging the AFM in when the engine is fully warmed up?
Old 04-07-2016, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Imo000
If field mice set up camp in the filter box, they probably made their way down into the rest of the intake manifold and stored outer stuff in there, choking the engine. Unlike you, I've seen this in person and is documented here, that's why I asked. Start with the basics, air, fuel ignition and see where that leads. Easiest is the air filter check and go from there.
+1

Fuel? Check. Spark? Check. Air? ...
Old 04-07-2016, 08:33 PM
  #30  
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I don't know if it would run after it has been warmed up, mostly because it smokes, and smells really rich without the AFM. I look a look deep in there, and there seems to be some black gunk down in there. Th car was sitting for 5 years before I got it. But, what confuses the hell out of me, it the fact that it'll run with no AMF... So, I'm getting fuel, air, spark, compression, the whole 9 yards. But, it won't even start as soon as it is plugged in. Should I let it run for a little bit without the AFM? I wasn't sure if that would cause any damage to the internals.
Thank you so much guys. So far, you have all been a great help.


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