wpgshark

Have 2 S4s now looking to pick up an OB, preferably a 78, turned 18 in 78.
I've ascertained that there weren't a lot of options.
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...in-1978-a.html
Most of the 78s have manual transmissions, few have sunroofs. No real difference in US and ROW.
This is soon to be a 40 year car, what makes a real difference in value? and what kind of difference?
Clean title? This is always important to me.
Good body? I expect that with very few exceptions they will all need paint, but if everything is there and straight, future work will be much easier.
All the pieces? Seems lots of these OBs are now kit cars, possibly with missing pieces.
Good transmission? I've seen posts on issues with syncros and the possibility of parts NA.
Pasha? I'm passionate for Pasha, but seems the black and tan is NA, leather much easier to fix.

wpgshark

Continued

Build number? is less than 100 better than less than 1000 better than greater than 1000?

Threw my hat in the ring for my first S4, got lucky, knew a lot more on my second, got lucky again, would like to know more on the 78, and get lucky again .


What say you?

Thanks,

Lance

Ad0911

1960 is a very good year. Especially certain dates like the 9th day of the 11th month, which coincidentally is the day I was born. And 1978 was a great year for music (dire straits with sultans of swing; gerry rafferty with Baker Street). And the 928 was a heavy relief after so many "folded paper designs" by Giugiaro. Yes, I totally agree with you. It was the greatest year for the 928.

linderpat

the luck will be directly proportional to the amount you wish to spend. What's your number?

The Deputy

Especially, on 1-23...when a eleven pound baby made his way out into the world.

Tough question. I believe there is a wide spectrum on prices. Depends what you are looking for in the end, show car or very nice driver. I'd assume mileage would mean more than vin. Unless, it's lesser than 20...then you may be able to get away with higher mileage...maybe?...only the market will decide.

I'd look for the nicest example I could find, even if it exceeds my price range some. Decide up front how much will be spent to return the car to the condition desired...and go from there.

I've only driven mine once (old red)...and it was a fun little car to drive. Much different than my 84 (old blacky), granted, the 78 is a stick and the 84 is auto, but it still had a much different feel on the road. More like a sports car is the best way "I" can describe it...whereas...the 84 feels more like a GT.

Good luck, with your endeavor.

Brian.

wpgshark

Seems to be a lot of 60's babies

Ed,

Still trying to establish my number. First I have to establish what I'm looking for.

As for price establishing luck, I have paid a lot and had bad luck, and I've paid a little and had good, although the general rule is Visa Versa it is not always the case. I can say I'm generally a lot more pi$$ed when I pay a lot and have bad luck, and I do kick myself when I pay a little and have bad luck. But when I pay a little and have good luck well that brings a smile to my face even decades latter.

linderpat

VanD

As far as build number, the first 50 or so would have been hand built not on an assembly line (Jim Doerr would probably know the exact number). These early ones would be worth a premium, the lower the number the more a premium. For some reason it appears that low US VIN's are also premium despite the fact that several 100's of Euros came before them. (Novelty of still having a low VIN, perhaps?) 5-speeds seem to be what everyone is looking for, but that might make the automatics the sleeper bargain. Rare colors/rare interiors are hard to come by and draw a crowd, and increase the $$. Low miles ,(

The Deputy

Actually, you may have missed a pretty good opportunity. #350 was just sold, after Dave started to dismantle. The car had some of the stuff us "78 guys" lust after. Several of us go into drool mode when we hear about an original radio, battery box cover or air intake tubes. Which, I believe this car had. Luckily, the new owner got a pretty complete project car. Granted, it needed paint, mechanical work and interior restoration...but all of that is easily obtained...it just takes money. But when something is no longer available...it's no longer available (yes, I know I repeated myself...lol).

I believe I have a pretty nice 78...but it's missing items that I may search high and low for...for a long, long time. But, I'm in this for the long haul.

Brian.

VanD

Well 1/2 my post disappeared!

I was going to say: super low miles (

VanD

OK I give up, some character I'm putting in is deleting the remainder of my posts....gotta go to my kids hockey game, may try again later....

AirtekHVAC

It also depends on if you want investment grade, or play grade....or down and dirty project.

I estimate I am about 5 years from mine being play grade...don't think I will ever think of it as an investment....even though the low number, I'm restoring it to be a driver, not a concourse or retirement plan.

I recommend talking to Jim Doerr at 928 classics for some good info. I've ridden in one of his refreshed cars, a 78 euro, and it was amazing...he is the OB guru.

VanD

Third time is a charm - hopefully his will post intact....so low miles (less than 10k) is big $$, the rarer colors add $$ and anything truly special (think Geneva show car or Jim Doerr's #1 or #6) add huge $$ (100's of thousands of $$).

A perfect low miler original car right now is $140k (Kermit in Germany, rare & cool color combo, super low miles, mint condition, although automatic). Right now a 'plain jane' exterior color,sorted driver, all systems working including A/C, maint up to date and nice repaint/interior is about 20-25k. Original paint 35-40k. Super nice cars like Bluemaxx or Andrews green cars, who knows? - 50-100k? Take your pick of anything in between that and Kermit adding $$ for colors, interior, miles, condition, and rarity. You can buy a 6k-10k car that drives, but 15k - 30k later will all systems will work and maintenance will be up to date with nice paint and interior repair unless you get really, really lucky.

You are very correct in worrying about the special '78 bits. most are missing and are terribly hard to locate. Early vents, breather tubes, cardboard intake tubes, battery covers!, tool kits, spare tire, air pump, chipboard spare tire covers, bulb kits, windshields, owners and radio manuals, CR radio, radio bezel; all are very hard to find intact now. A car that is beat but has all these items would be a feeding frenzy as these are so hard to find.

The market has really changed in the recent (one year) past. Very few cars for sale and they don't last long. A recent development is that '78-'79 parts cars are becoming non-existant. Anything with clean title and no accident damage WILL get restored. And the restoration costs are 80 to over $100k So with that the need for parts increase in demand as well. The cars that remain are usually missing most of the unavailable bits that everyone needs.

AFAIK Jim Doerr has a nice Euro Mocha Brown '78 driver grade and a real nice '78 Oak Green Survivor that may be available, and both have been gone through by the best early car expert there is. I don't know what the ask is on these.

Good luck with the search! I suggest you buy one soon as the market is changing quickly. I have a completely full stable for the moment but there's always room for another if the 'one' I'm looking for comes along...(apple green/pascha anyone?)...

Ad0911

Oh boy, I don't even know what some of these parts look like! Cardboard intake tubes? Battery cover? I only know of the hinged hatch above the battery

wpgshark

You are very correct in worrying about the special '78 bits. most are missing and are terribly hard to locate. Early vents, breather tubes, cardboard intake tubes, battery covers!, tool kits, spare tire, air pump, chipboard spare tire covers, bulb kits, windshields, owners and radio manuals, CR radio, radio bezel; all are very hard to find intact now. A car that is beat but has all these items would be a feeding frenzy as these are so hard to find.

Thank-you this was exactly what I was looking for.

I know what the early vents look like, what exactly are breather tubes? By battery cover do you mean the lid for the battery box or is there an additional cover?

I can't imagine an original windshield, on anything driven, and can see most original stereos being chucked as well. But the other stuff is certainly worth looking for.

Lance

Lance