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The impression I get from following this forum is that most mechanical work on 928s is done by their owners, except that done by a handful of professional 928 mechanics who contribute here (thank you!). I'm sure that's not a correct perception since the forum is mostly about doing mechanical work. What do you suppose is the actual percentage? Is it different from, say, 911s of the same era? Is it changing? Will it change?
The "problem" I perceive with your query is that most owners nowadays probably do some of their maintenance and the real point of interest is at what point do they "bug out". Some kind of poll to define categories such as nothing, oil service, minor mechanical [brakes], major mechanical [WP/TT] or complete engine/transmission rebuild might be interesting.
The "bug out point" would be a great metric. But I'm actually asking people here to guess what the entire population of 928 owners do, what the "others" do that we can't find out with a poll. My own guess is ... no, I have no idea.
This is a very interesting question, and one that has always fascinated me in terms of different kinds of owners within the Porsche or indeed the wider "classics" community.
Fred makes a very good point about distinguishing between levels of job/skills.
The OP is also correct that a forum creates its own bias. Nevertheless if I look at model-specific forums within my own Porsche club in UK, it's obvious that owners of 928s (and other front-engined Porsches, but I sense 928 owners dive a bit deeper technically) are far more hands-on by a huge margin compared with 911 owners of all types, air or water cooled. I would say that even within the enthusiast Porsche club circle, it's unusual for a 911 owner to do any work on their car regardless of age. It's interesting to speculate on possible reasons which might include:
- sheer necessity. 911 specialists are pretty thick on the ground. Mechanics who know the 928 well are much rarer, so may be inconveniently far from many owners
- the 928 is just fantastically well supported in terms of documented procedures, and owners who are generous with advice within the community. It gives people the confidence to tackle jobs, and creates upward spiral of taking on more and more complex jobs, acquiring more confidence/skill/tools, and in turn "paying back" with advice and help for others
- same thinking applies to having fantastic specialist 928 vendors
- cost comes into it. 928 (and 944/968) prices are firming, but in general have lagged 911 prices for cars of same era. Maybe these purchase prices attract more owners who need to keep running costs down by doing as much of the work themselves as possible
- the 928 is a very rewarding car to work on. It becomes addictive
- the 928 is a complex and highly specified car. Maybe just more things are bound to need fixing? Maybe such a technically interesting car attracts more owners interested in doing their own work?
- as far as 928 owners helping other owners with advice, offers to help with jobs etc, I think the 928 does foster a more intense community spirit than other models. It may be typical for someone to buy a 944 or Boxster as first Porsche, with the ambition to "upgrade" to the fabled 911 in future and on to newer 997 or 991 series cars. With 928 owners many are more interested in the 928 than they are in Porsche in general. Even the ones lucky enough to own a 928 and another Porsche, often seem to have more affection for the 928! It's a very special spirit between owners
Not an exhaustive list, so maybe others can suggest more, or challenge the hypotheses?
Best
Adrian
Last edited by StratfordShark; 01-03-2016 at 10:28 AM.
My guess is that by the nature of what this forum is, most on this site do their own work, but as Roger and others have pointed out, so many more shark owners have never heard of rennlist. I'd bet on that basis, most owners do not do their own work.
I think it comes down to simple economic theory combined with nonstochastic Darwinian selection.
The 928s are (still) rather inexpensive to get into, so many unsophisticated people get into these cars without much mechanical knowledge. New and prospective owners usually have slight illusions of grandeur about rolling down the highway in a quintessential 80's supercar with autumn leaves rustling as they carve turn after turn.
Sure, they know to budget a few thousand dollars for some maintenance, but what they don't realize is that there are very few knowledgable service people for these cars. But they buy the car anyway off of ebay because the picture looked great, and well... how bad could it be anyway?
They get the car and they start loving it. They already blew their $3k of maintenance funds on tires, brakes, and some floor mats and leather bits for the interior. He might have even bought the misses a "PORSCHE" t-short for $35, (That turns out to be a size too small because he wants her to be part of his mid-life crisis.
Then he finds the first ***** in the armour. Something doesn't work, or a funny sound emerges, or god-forbid a no start issue.
He takes the car to the local dealer or Porsche shop that charges $150 to $200 per hour, only to receive a bill for $3,000 for what turned out to be a dead crank position sensor. Yikes!
Now the guy has a hard decision to make. The wife is pissed because he just blew their vacation money on a car she doesn't even like because the shirt makes her look fat and the interior of the car always smells like exhaust. So either he needs to learn how to do the work himself, or punt the car to the next guy, and beg the wife to forgive him for blowing the vaca money for Vegas.
So you see, it's a natural selection kind of thing - except that's it's highly predictable. If the owner does not do their own work, they will have to sell the car because it's just too expensive to pay someone else to do the work for the value of the car. So the choice is either learn how to do the work, or make a small fortune by starting with a large one and paying someone to work on a 928.
AO.... funny but true. I haven't had to go in to any heavy stuff yet on my 79 but I enjoy reading youze guys descriptions before I tackle anything. then of course I do it "my way". DIYers get satisfaction from being an owner/fixer. I deliberately stay away from 80s cars of all make that have the nasty early attempts of electronic engine management. German cars worst idea were those horrible layered printed circuits under the relay boards.
I bought my first 928 with the sole intentions of working on it. It was to be my retirement project, but unfortunately it didn't turn out that way (unfortunately?...what the hell is wrong with me...lol). The car has been pretty decent to me. Yes, I've done a few thousand dollars worth of repairs, that were deferred by the PO of 26 years...but over all...I've just been driving it. Well, not recently...being winter and all.
I'd assume that most folks that buy these cars, and understand anything about twenty to thirty year old cars...of any make, are planning on doing a lot of the work themselves. I was late into the first quarter of a 37 Chevy restoration and dropped back, thought about it...and punted. The car just didn't do anything for me, and my son had not as much interest as I had hoped. Anyhow, I love the looks of these 928's. There are days when I just pull up a chair in the garage and look at them.
So, yes...I'd say most folks that own these cars work on them to some level above the ordinary oil change or brake job.
I'm reading these excellent comments between wrestling bouts with my injectors. A little bloody, sore back, and the smell of gasoline is ruining the taste of my coffee. Feeling a little anxious, looking ahead on Dwayne's epic write-up. But somehow, it's the perfect way to spend a snowy winter day. Radiant heat is a factor.
Adrian: the comparison with 911 owners is fascinating, as well as your other observations. AO: you made me cry when you used the term "non-stochastic".
The "bug out point" would be a great metric. But I'm actually asking people here to guess what the entire population of 928 owners do, what the "others" do that we can't find out with a poll. My own guess is ... no, I have no idea.
Originally Posted by linderpat
My guess is that by the nature of what this forum is, most on this site do their own work, but as Roger and others have pointed out, so many more shark owners have never heard of rennlist. I'd bet on that basis, most owners do not do their own work.
In my almost 5 years years here, I would say the number of 928 owners on Rennlist ends in 'hundred'. Though I'm no expert on this, I would surmise the total number of 928's in existence ends in 'thousand'. I've met three who've never even heard of Rennlist... I was abashed...for them really. Though it seems that many of us here do, I think it is much lower in the entire population of the car.
Last edited by MainePorsche; 01-03-2016 at 12:48 PM.
Ah, the Sprite. It sits in a corner of the garage, fairly well exploded into bits, non-stochastically distributed in various bags and boxes (I hope). I'm waiting on a valve spring compressor, hence the switchover to the intake refresh.
This is actually related to the question: I have the 928 to thank for this adventure; if you can change the oil on a 928, you can yank an engine out of a Sprite.
i will attempt to fix, repair or maintain everything except body work, interior is what i do for a job, and mechanical ill atempt anything from oil change to an engine rebuild, being my first porsche and i bought as a project, this should be fun
01-03-2016, 09:34 AM
How many 928s are maintained by owners?
