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- the 928 is just fantastically well supported in terms of documented procedures, and owners who are generous with advice within the community. It gives people the confidence to tackle jobs, and creates upward spiral of taking on more and more complex jobs, acquiring more confidence/skill/tools, and in turn "paying back" with advice and help for others
- same thinking applies to having fantastic specialist 928 vendors
- cost comes into it. 928 (and 944/968) prices are firming, but in general have lagged 911 prices for cars of same era. Maybe these purchase prices attract more owners who need to keep running costs down by doing as much of the work themselves as possible
These are it for me. I do the vast majority of my own work, partly because I like to, mostly because I can't afford to pay dealer rates for everything. On the 928 I've done everything except the MM/OPG job, but the shop I use is owned by a good friend and I was helping with it. I did the research and maybe 1/3 of the actual work. I had the same friend help get the clutch out, mainly because we needed to use his "rattle gun" (pneumatic miniature jackhammer) to vibrate the short shaft out of the pilot bearing.
I got a 944 about 10 years ago, with my "eyes wide shut". No real idea what I was getting into.
3 years ago, I decided to upgrade. This time, I did my homework. After a fair amount of research, I decided on the 928.
Buy in was pretty cheap. 911 prices had started to go up, but even then, the "bang for the buck" was heavily in favor of a 928.
Parts availability and vendor support. Particularly with Roger and Mark/Tom. The phone conversations I had with them the first few times convinced me. And it goes beyond vendors. I've gotten a belly pan, tool kit, grill part and service covers from members on here. All for fair prices.
Procedures and advice. I got mine in January (from Minnesota, took it home to Wisconsin). I parked it the day after I got it home, and left it that way for over 2 months. During that time I used the info on here to go through the seat mechanisms, the speedo/odo, the hatch lock mechanism and a couple other things. There's been a lot more since. I have yet to come across a problem that isn't clearly covered. And when I got stuck, despite good writeups, the "brain trust" on here walked me through it (see my "Clutch Removal Problems" thread from last spring).
I think Mark at 928 Int'l mentioned one time that Rennlist members are a small fraction of folks on his customer lists. I'm sure that there are plenty of DIY folks on other boards too that take care of their own cars.
So part of my history is writing "expert decision-making" software, part of which includes making sure that the result is the answer to the exact question asked. My guesstimate is somewhere south of 10%. The rest do not actually maintain their 928's at all, may do part of the maintenenace and ignore the rest. Another maybe 10% have them maintained professionally by others. Undermaintained or unmaintained cars seem to make up the lions' share of cars we see hit the market, if that's a clue.
Good thread. I'm too busy working on a near-full restoration for a client to post thoughtful comments except that a) Adrian and Andrew have hit the nails on their heads and b) there are a lot of lurkers on Rennlist; they don't post but they read and learn.
Non-stochastic. LOL. Bet you won't find that used on the 'vette forum or indeed on most - if any - other forums.
The view from web forums is skewed. Lots of guys come here looking for help with their own projects. If you're having the work done then there's less motivation to post and participate.
Most 928 owners that I meet don't work on their cars. That is, they don't do anything beyond minor maintenance. Change oil and filters? Replace a bulb? If you set the bar above that then less than half are fixing their vehicles.
The view from web forums is skewed. Lots of guys come here looking for help with their own projects. If you're having the work done then there's less motivation to post and participate.
Most 928 owners that I meet don't work on their cars. That is, they don't do anything beyond minor maintenance. Change oil and filters? Replace a bulb? If you set the bar above that then less than half are fixing their vehicles.
Way less than 1/2 in my opinion..... not that there is anything wrong with that....
What I find interesting is how many who NEVER worked on any of their own cars start "learning" on a 928 primarily because they can not afford to pay someone else. They may then actually enjoy it and embrace it as a hobby.
What I find interesting is how many who NEVER worked on any of their own cars start "learning" on a 928 primarily because they can not afford to pay someone else. They may then actually enjoy it and embrace it as a hobby.
How about the polar opposite? Folks that can afford to pay to have it maintained but figure out that they can't get what they pay for?
How about the polar opposite? Folks that can afford to pay to have it maintained but figure out that they can't get what they pay for?
Hit it on the head. About 10 years ago I paid a local Porsche performance shop here in VB to replace the half shafts on my 911, I was feeling rich and lazy. 100 miles or so later, the driver's side came loose due to improper torque and ripped up my 915 transmission oil cooler. These are not easily replaced, they were fitted to Euro only.
A few thousand miles later my transmission failed. While tearing down I found that the loose half-shaft had hit the pump housing hard enough to jam bits of the cooler coil mount into the transmission pump oil gear and the teeth had sheared off. All the bits were in my gearbox of course, so there's a strong possibility that my overpriced half-shaft replacement cost me a transmission.
I've come to believe that VB just does not have any mechanics of the caliber of the Pros that regularly post on this forum (and obviously take pride in their work). So yeah, I do my own work.
I do all the work on mine and enjoy it. It's not just about the money. It's nice to save money, but one of the reasons I like this car is the engineering behind it and it's fun to learn about. For 85' it was a pretty advanced design. I pay someone else to work on my work/daily vehicles.
After seeing what Thai "mechanics" have done to my 928 over the years I would never have anybody else touch the car except for a few things I can't do myself like Freon refill and painting.
We have the same problem with factory dealers of all marks here in Thailand. "Mechanics" knows nothing and only change what the computer tells them to change.
I owned my 928 for 14 years before recently joining this forum. I never had a need for the help before this year. Always wanted to go to Sharkfest at 928 int, where I found out about rennlist this last summer. The car has been fairly was reliable and I am a hands on sort of car owner who has no fear of trying to fix anything if it makes economic sense.
I realize I am among a very small number of people this day and age. So are you guys. Of the people on this forum you are the most active 1%.
I would quality people that would change a timing belt as people willing to work on their car. Light bulb, Oil or coolant changes just don't count but even that is a small percentage. Look at the condition of the average 928 rolling down the road and the number of items needing attention. Why? It is hard to find a trustworthy and qualified repair specialist. "Who do you have work on your car" is often the 2nd or third question 928 owners ask each other when they meet.
So I would guess that today much less than 5% of 928 owners will change their own timing belt. Maybe as low as 1%. There are still lots of 928's just sitting too. As the car gets more into the collectible class the number of cars drops those who actually work on them will grow slowly. However there is a change occurring in car enthusiasts / collectors. Even hot rod owners have become more buyers of engines than timing belt / chain changers. When I talk to car enthusiasts I am shocked how little work they do on their cars other than polish them or bolt an accessories.
Just one old mans observation. Steve
The impression I get from following this forum is that most mechanical work on 928s is done by their owners, except that done by a handful of professional 928 mechanics who contribute here (thank you!). I'm sure that's not a correct perception since the forum is mostly about doing mechanical work. What do you suppose is the actual percentage? Is it different from, say, 911s of the same era? Is it changing? Will it change?
ADK:
Here is what doing nothing on your own looks like.
01-03-2016, 02:27 PM
Good thread. I'm too busy working on a near-full restoration for a client to post thoughtful comments except that a) Adrian and Andrew have hit the nails on their heads and b) there are a lot of lurkers on Rennlist; they don't post but they read and learn.
