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You have the part#'s for the early and late pumps reversed
Thanks Jim corrected.
But the 015 is not a ROW pump, they are the same everywhere
I agree with YOU however Porsche does NOT agree with us - 928 106 015 X is only listed in the ROW PET and not in the USA/CAN.
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Does it have the "Do It Yourself" manual transmission, or the superior "Fully Equipped by Porsche" Automatic Transmission? George Layton March 2014
928 Owners are ".....a secret sect of quietly assured Porsche pragmatists who in near anonymity appreciate the prodigious, easy going prowess of the 928."
Quote:
Originally Posted by kos_007 View Post
The only thing I would add is that as as a "goodwill gesture" Porsche should be selling their 928 WPs at 50 bucks a piece. They have no shame selling them for 1000+bucks. Now we are talking about brand loyalty ! - not good !!!
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Post #60, 129.
Porsche is in business to sell new cars !! And high end cars for the wealthy is their niche.... no reason to make fixing used ones more affordable when part of the brand allure is that you need to be rich to buy a new one.
Trust me on this Porsche is not designing their new models with me in mind .
All said and done, we all have a choice. Buy whatever you want, and live with the consequences. I made my choice after doing my due diligence, and I'm happy with the results.
+928
Also, thanks to Ed for jumping on the forum and explaining some history and his thoughts about the Guardian pump.
The part number above, R928-106-915-X is listed in Auto Atlanta as a remanufactured pump for $111.63 along with a couple other options including another remanufactured option with a part # of G928-106-915-X for $228.11. Also have new Porsche which is described as Laso Water Pump part number S928-106-915-X
What they are saying is aftermarket rebuilt is $111.63
Porsche rebuild is $228.11 which is in line with what has been stated above.
Porsche new is $718.33
What they are saying is aftermarket rebuilt is $111.63
Porsche rebuild is $228.11 which is in line with what has been stated above.
Porsche new is $718.33
Actually "Porsche rebuilt" is somewhat misleading more accurate is aftermarket rebuilt sourced in the USA by PCNA .... and SOLD by dealers. Given that PCNA is primarily a marketing and distribution organization I question if they have much in the way of quality control or engineering in the U S since they as a company do no manufacturing or design that I am aware of.
OEM Porsche WP has the best track record. Failure rate less than 0.5%.
KOS_007 - my only issue is this statement - the only OEM WP for the 928 is the Porsche pump made by GPM. As GPM DOES not sell to the wholesaler market the only way you can buy their pump is to buy a Porsche pump from Porsche. They may be good and I know GB swears by them but the volume is absolutely tiny compared to the sale of other 928 WP's. How do you come up with the failure rate of 0.5%?? Based on what quantity used and over what time frame and who supplied the failure data.
Roger - you are absolutely correct ! I was referring to the OEM Porsche water pumps (made by GPM) which came with our cars from the factory - tens of thousands of them. I was not referring to replacement OEM pumps - the number is too small, no reliable data etc. The 0.5% failure rate is from warranty repair claims, I still have to pin down the original info source. My personal, statistically insignificant experience: 1989 S4 - the original pump started leaking (slow leak when the engine is hot and the cooling system is pressurized) at 145k miles. Replaced with a 1000 bucks Porsche/GPM pump - not even gold plated !
OK, it seem we have reached an agreement:
1. Ed's Guardian WP is of superior design and craftsmanship. Together wit PK tensioner it should be a safe choice. The only problem I have is no long-term follow-up record - like 500 pumps over 10 year/100k miles time frame.
2. If we use a non plastic/composite propeller exclusion criterion then the only choice is the OEM Porsche WP.
So, here you have it: if you want to keep your 928 use either OEM or Guardian pump.
Am I wrong ?
I do not disagree with you about Ed's pump as a statement - however again speculation on the qty and failure rate. No data available - perhaps Ed could supply some but I would believe the Qty to be fairly low and the early failures (now resolved) would skew the numbers.
As one of the largest 928 new parts suppliers in the World the market buys the Laso pump in large quantities compared to the other two possibilities - I am not including cheap aftermarket pumps in this overall assessment.
I want to work with Ed to come up with some alternatives ----
1) One of Ed's pumps without the rubber clutch because I believe it is overkill - one of Ed's pumps with the quality seal cartridge will do the job nicely for a reasonable price. A good quality seal cartridge will not lead to any seized WP's. I also like his idea about a billet pump with rebuild qualities.
As of now the choice is clear for the market in General - 928 owners Worldwide of which a vast majority have never heard of Rennlist -----
1) Laso with plastic impeller for the early cars or for use with a PKT - low statistically proven failure rate of less than 0.5%. This is my only choice currently on all my own cars.
2) GEBA with metal impeller for the later cars without PKT - based on the number sold by the wholesaler (only two of the major four sells them)
3) Porsche and Ed's pump - general 928 ownership do not buy either of these pumps. Possibly may be the best choice however the market does not agree.
Porsche and Ed's pump - general 928 ownership do not buy either of these pumps. Possibly may be the best choice however the market does not agree.
Roger - I again fully agree with you. The "general 928 ownership" who buys 928 parts these days are people who buy a cheap 928 and want to fix it on the cheap. A 1000 bucks+ for a water pump ? NO WAY !!!!
Roger - I again fully agree with you. The "general 928 ownership" who buys 928 parts these days are people who buy a cheap 928 and want to fix it on the cheap. A 1000 bucks+ for a water pump ? NO WAY !!!!
Kos_007 - who are you - hiding behind a a Rennlist name - again you are totally wrong and have little understanding of what is being said, A Laso pump at $435 with a proven track record is not a cheap pump like you insinuate - I guess I will just put you on ignore as you are becoming antagonistic and incoherent and have nothing to add or bring to this party of intelligent discussion. Goodbye.
I have never put a Rennlister on ignore ever but I guess there is always a first time.
I didn't really think he was being antagonistic...I thought the cheap reference was to folks buying $100 Chinese knock-offs...but I could be wrong.
I would have no issues going with the proven Laso, but I like the innovation and engineering behind the Guardian, and it provides something along with the PKTensioner that I like.
Regarding the Porsche pumps at almost $1K...it just bothers me. There's no good reason a quality pump should cost that much. To be honest, there's no good reason a $100 water pump shouldn't be good quality, but the evidence says they often aren't.
Actually "Porsche rebuilt" is somewhat misleading more accurate is aftermarket rebuilt sourced in the USA by PCNA .... and SOLD by dealers.
Actually I am not sure this is correct, given that the stock levels (as reported by Roger, above) are all in Germany. I agree on PCNA's (lack of) technical capabilities, but wouldn't those rebuilt pumps be stocked in NA? (I have no knowledge of this, just curious).
the rebuilder who did them for PCNA for many years was local in Southern California I visited his shop which was very low tech but he was for many years the sole rebuilder in the U .S Mark Anderson provided him with the first core pumps so he could figure out what to do. The housings were surfaced on a belt sander.
He retired closed the shop and his son began doing the rebuilds in a small shop behind his house.... As pumps were being "rebuilt" multiple times more and more issues began to arise. It has been a few years since I have sold any 928 parts and things can always change.....
Porsche and Ed's pump - general 928 ownership do not buy either of these pumps. Possibly may be the best choice however the market does not agree.
Roger - I again fully agree with you. The "general 928 ownership" who buys 928 parts these days are people who buy a cheap 928 and want to fix it on the cheap. A 1000 bucks+ for a water pump ? NO WAY !!!!
Kos, I respectfully suggest that you are overly-generalizing the "general 928 ownership". There is no such thing. This is a diverse group, and folks that paid $1000 for their cars will be justifiably reluctant to spend that much again for a water pump. But that is only one end of a wide spectrum.
What about the low-miles GTS owner, whose car might be worth anywhere from 50-100K in today's market? Do you suggest that they should not spend whatever is required to keep the car in original-as-possible condition? Or would you have them fit a cheap Conti belt and a $100 water pump? I believe that they would reject your advice, that is not your decision to make.
Roger says that there were no new factory pumps sold, but I know there were at least three (and likely more). Not because folks have excess cash but because at this time the factory pump is arguably the most reliable option. The cost, however painful, becomes a secondary consideration because either (a) the car cost the owner $80K new and is being maintained at that level; or (b) the car does a lot of road miles (say, 100K in 5 years) and the value placed on reliability is higher than the factory's stupid price; or (c) see GTS comment, above.
We all see the world through our own eyes. The purpose here is to exchange information so that we can each make our own informed choices. Whatever you want to do is fine with me, just be aware of the limitations and failures of whatever you choose.
12-03-2015, 02:06 PM
George Layton March 2014
