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The most difficult part is spending the time and insane money when something you've worked hard on goes bad. Those spare engine blocks aren't for show.
It's not that bad.
When I had an acute transmission failure I immediately knew it would be a few dollars. I certainly didn't expect the original unit to last forever, even though I maintained it well on my watch. As a 928 guy I turned it into an exercise in a long diagnostic thread, learning much about the transmission along the way. Looking back, it was all in the fun of learning, and owning, the car.
IMHO the 928 was a leader in all things. When it was introduced cars, with the exception of some European's not built in Germany, were relatively easy to fix, and when something broke it didn't cause catastrophic failure somewhere else. Those Europeans weren't built to be driven regularly and were exotic so they didn't catch the flack.
Enter the 928 and that all changed. It was complex and appeared even more so. There was no room to work and it was gawd awful expensive, but you were suppose to be able to drive it, advertised 12,000 miles between service. In the 70's my Nova wouldn't go 1,200 miles between service, but the repairs were always cheap and easy.
Fast forward 20-30 years and all cars are this way and then some. I've been working on my daughters Volvo S40. It has an unpleasant sound emanating from the front that has been a challenge. Sounds like a wheel bearing but after changing both of those and then the front drive shafts, took the brakes and tires off when I had it up on jacks to eliminate those, I am now removing the AWD angle gear to get at a coupling sleeve which may be the problem, unless it is the angle gear itself.
One problem is that there are too many things that can make noise, this is made worse by the second problem, all of those things are stuffed together and covered with layers of other stuff so differentiating where the sound is coming from is near impossible. If the computer scan doesn't tell you where the problem is, well... best guess from there.
Anyway the point of the story is that the Volvo S40 has the same interference engine, a long timing belt, a pile more systems that can go wrong, and there is even less room to work than the 928. I cursed the 928 when I was removing the heat shield over the AC compressor because I could only get about a 30 degree swing on one of the bolts, last night on the S40 I had some that were half of that. On a couple of them I have no idea how I'm going to get them back in as I couldn't actually get my hand on the bolt.
After a little of that the 928 is suddenly a joy to work on. As for parts costs, most 928 service parts are comparative to Volvo parts, there are exceptions, the radiator and intake tubes on the S4 come to mind, but how often do you need those.
This forum is a serious resource that is also rare. There are similar forums for my pre 98 Volvos, but difficult to find anything useful on anything newer. At some point it appears that Volvo owners stopped fixing their cars, likely as the task became less rewarding. Without a group fixing and reporting it will be near impossible for anyone in the future as the stories will not exist. There will always be those that will try anything, the rest of us would rather know what to expect before we start.
So where does this rambling lead, like concealed safety bumpers, ergonomic seating, extended service intervals, and a suspension designed to keep you safe, on the complexity of service front the 928 was just 20 to 30 years ahead of the trend and just now are cars surpassing it.
IMHO the 928 was a leader in all things. When it was introduced cars, with the exception of some European's not built in Germany, were relatively easy to fix, and when something broke it didn't cause catastrophic failure somewhere else. Those Europeans weren't built to be driven regularly and were exotic so they didn't catch the flack.
Enter the 928 and that all changed. It was complex and appeared even more so. There was no room to work and it was gawd awful expensive, but you were suppose to be able to drive it, advertised 12,000 miles between service. In the 70's my Nova wouldn't go 1,200 miles between service, but the repairs were always cheap and easy.
Fast forward 20-30 years and all cars are this way and then some. I've been working on my daughters Volvo S40. It has an unpleasant sound emanating from the front that has been a challenge. Sounds like a wheel bearing but after changing both of those and then the front drive shafts, took the brakes and tires off when I had it up on jacks to eliminate those, I am now removing the AWD angle gear to get at a coupling sleeve which may be the problem, unless it is the angle gear itself.
One problem is that there are too many things that can make noise, this is made worse by the second problem, all of those things are stuffed together and covered with layers of other stuff so differentiating where the sound is coming from is near impossible. If the computer scan doesn't tell you where the problem is, well... best guess from there.
Anyway the point of the story is that the Volvo S40 has the same interference engine, a long timing belt, a pile more systems that can go wrong, and there is even less room to work than the 928. I cursed the 928 when I was removing the heat shield over the AC compressor because I could only get about a 30 degree swing on one of the bolts, last night on the S40 I had some that were half of that. On a couple of them I have no idea how I'm going to get them back in as I couldn't actually get my hand on the bolt.
After a little of that the 928 is suddenly a joy to work on. As for parts costs, most 928 service parts are comparative to Volvo parts, there are exceptions, the radiator and intake tubes on the S4 come to mind, but how often do you need those.
This forum is a serious resource that is also rare. There are similar forums for my pre 98 Volvos, but difficult to find anything useful on anything newer. At some point it appears that Volvo owners stopped fixing their cars, likely as the task became less rewarding. Without a group fixing and reporting it will be near impossible for anyone in the future as the stories will not exist. There will always be those that will try anything, the rest of us would rather know what to expect before we start.
So where does this rambling lead, like concealed safety bumpers, ergonomic seating, extended service intervals, and a suspension designed to keep you safe, on the complexity of service front the 928 was just 20 to 30 years ahead of the trend and just now are cars surpassing it.
Enjoy your cars.
Very true.
The 928 is not that hard to work on. Not as easy as my father's 75 Chev Caprice, but not nearly as hard as the newer cars. My wife's Enclave developed an issue with steering - needed a new steering pump. The Buick shop manual called for dropping the exhaust on the passenger side and a number of other things. Really was a bear of a job, and the clearances to get you hands in for the lines was worse than anything on the 928.
Hate to say it, but that journalist's description was exactly my experience. I bought a $5500 car and before too long had $12k into it, and it pretty much stayed flatline with value. And I've owned and sorted out around ten cars.
I'll come back to the 928 world when I can find a properly sorted car that fills my checkboxes. I'll wait years if I have to. There's always a project of some sort to do on most "toy" cars, but the endless slaving away fixing things bit by bit becomes economically unfeasible on many of the 928's on the market. Many of them are $3000 cars that need $12000 in work only to be worth $8000.
I love the 928, but it is hard to make many of them economically sensible. As said it is a lot like the cars sold today, say a new European car. They are all complex.
The reason I've stayed interested, looking, willing and ready are the reasons Landseer documents back on the first page. Now that I know the car I know what to look for, what to pay, and what to do. And I know what a blast they are to drive and remember it well from my childhood. But the journalist is not entirely wrong. I hope to own one that makes more sense one day.
You're right, technically, but the article wasn't listing cars that weren't financially worth flipping. That's an entirely different topic. I think it's pretty safe to say most folks on this list (at least the active ones) didn't get into the car because they were thinking about selling it for a profit, which is really the only time it matters that you've paid in more than it's "worth." Yes, I have paid more in parts than I paid for the car itself, and yes there's a lot left to be done, and no, I couldn't sell it for the total of all of that...but I don't want to sell it. I'm pretty sure I couldn't afford anything that would make me as happy as this car has when I drive it, even thought it stranded me three times before I figured out that bit of nonsense. Just a different perspective I guess.
Originally Posted by rlich8
Hate to say it, but that journalist's description was exactly my experience. I bought a $5500 car and before too long had $12k into it, and it pretty much stayed flatline. And I've owned and sorted out around ten cars.
I'll come back to the 928 world when I can find a properly sorted car that fills my checkboxes. I'll wait years if I have to. There's always a project of some sort to do on most "toy" cars, but the endless slaving away fixing things bit by bit becomes economically unfeasible on many of the 928's on the market. Many of them are $3000 cars that need $12000 in work only to be worth $8000.
I love the 928, but it is hard to make many of them economically sensible.
You're right, technically, but the article wasn't listing cars that weren't financially worth flipping. That's an entirely different topic. I think it's pretty safe to say most folks on this list (at least the active ones) didn't get into the car because they were thinking about selling it for a profit, which is really the only time it matters that you've paid in more than it's "worth." Yes, I have paid more in parts than I paid for the car itself, and yes there's a lot left to be done, and no, I couldn't sell it for the total of all of that...but I don't want to sell it. I'm pretty sure I couldn't afford anything that would make me as happy as this car has when I drive it, even thought it stranded me three times before I figured out that bit of nonsense. Just a different perspective I guess.
I actually am not interested in flipping them, against it even, but I do like to be right-side up when I buy a car. 8 or so times out of 10 I have been. I'm an enthusiast. But I am self employed and own my own business. So I sensibly have to consider the possibility of needing to liquidate unnecessary things if I run into problems.
I'm not upset at the 928, and it was probably the best-worst automotive experience I ever had. I learned so much working on that car and the investment is justified in my mind because of that.
The next one I buy will make way more economic sense and I'll be way more in love with it than I was with the first one. Bizarre I know but rather settling personally for me.
Yes, one should never purchase any kind of car without knowing its maintenance/running status. Even a cheap knock around for your high school kid can become a fiscal nightmare. Then again this would be less to repair than a 30 year old Porsche whose production numbers were in the thousands as opposed to the tens (or even hundreds) of thousands, but without knowing what you're buying can lead to this. I bought mine from a Rennlist guy. Had folders of receipts with it. There were no surprises. It was a 'well sorted' one and wasn't that expensive. I didn't go for the relatively inexpensive one from parts unknown without a history trail. That is increasing the probability of trouble for oneself.
Tell this journalist to try to repair and mantain a 80'ies FIAT. expensive or cheap, there are no parts available at dealers and fiat services,at junkyards either.
if you are lucky , you can follow a similar car on the Street , shortly the part you need will fall down from that car....
Francesco
Actually spent a bit of time under mine yesterday and found it to be very easy to follow what is what, and how things go. Plenty of room to get tools in place. No issues yet in maintaining. Of course, having a lift helps
Hate to say it, but that journalist's description was exactly my experience. I bought a $5500 car and before too long had $12k into it, and it pretty much stayed flatline with value. And I've owned and sorted out around ten cars...
Big difference between "maintaining" a car and "fixing all the crap the PO let go to hell because he didn't maintain it".
Catching up on deferred/neglected work is expensive. Period.
Once caught up, these cars are little to no different than any other car in their class. They aren't cheap to own, but they are far from a "nightmare".
When I first got mine, one of the mechanics in the shop at work asked "Is that the one that's really cheap to buy but really expensive to own?"
Big difference between "maintaining" a car and "fixing all the crap the PO let go to hell because he didn't maintain it".
Catching up on deferred/neglected work is expensive. Period.
Once caught up, these cars are little to no different than any other car in their class. They aren't cheap to own, but they are far from a "nightmare".
When I first got mine, one of the mechanics in the shop at work asked "Is that the one that's really cheap to buy but really expensive to own?"
Pretty much sums it up.
Having bought and fixed a number of cars most of them Volvo I can say
All cars with "Catching up on deferred/neglected work is expensive" tend to be "cheap to buy but really expensive to own" until they are sorted out.
No Ferraris on the list... the ones that require engine removal when changing the belts, huh? 4000$ in the Ferrari dealer for 348 belt changes. Every other year.
Jag V12 isn't as bad as it was portrayed, either. I have a friend who owns a XJC with this same engine. It's very "accessible" engine (maintenance wise) and not unreliable at all.
The whole article sounds like it was written by someone who doesn't have a clue what he was talking about. Everything was based on rumours and hearsay.
Having bought and fixed a number of cars most of them Volvo I can say
All cars with "Catching up on deferred/neglected work is expensive" tend to be "cheap to buy but really expensive to own" until they are sorted out.
Kinda what I was getting at.
I think I'm a little misunderstood here. This is a 928 forum so of course the consensus is to defend, and I'm not really saying anything bad about the 928... just the condition that many of them for sale seem to be in. I'm not criticizing the model on the whole more so just the ratty ones that seem to always be popping up.
It is a fantastic car and at the top of my favorites. The "idea" of a well-sorted, clean 928 is one of the most appealing cars to me. They are not really that much more "mechanically challenging" if at all than whatever baseline difficulty anyone wishes to compare it to.
What makes the 928 "nightmarish" is the fact that it is hard to bring one from C- or D status to A- due to many parts being NLA or limited from Porsche and very expensive. Or the used cost expensive too. Those are facts.
There are very few individuals who can successfully accomplish what I described above at a non-nightmarish cost. The economics don't make sense and or the people don't have patience. Or they ultimately turn it into some kind of frankenmod.
As far as keeping an already well-sorted 928 going down the road it is pretty darn easy to get one to 200,000+ miles without little effort. True for many cars too, yes. They are well made, well engineered cars and the galvanized body shell is not prone to rust. It's one of the best sports cars ever made and arguably the first "100% true" Porsche.
11-03-2015, 11:01 AM
