BauerR

Found a nice early 1987.

Rob Edwards

I don't think it makes any practical difference.

Adk46

Folks here will want to know if the rear wing flips up (indicates earlier cars, and corresponds to engines that squirt oil on the undersides of the pistons. Perhaps of value only as novelties - mine is early - let's see what others think.

BauerR

Only reason I ask is because I see people here asking from time to time.
I have no idea what the differences are.

atb

I would think at some point the early '87's are going to hold their value better if you're interested in investment value. The minuses are that Porsche designed out the changes of the early '87 probably for a reason. The flip up wing hinges have been reported to loosen and make noise over time ( I've never personally seen this in any that I've seen), piston squirters have been said to contribute to oil control issues. Early motors came with the metal oil fill neck that was later changed to plastic.
Overall, I would see the early car as a plus. You can always update the parts that create issues later on, more difficult to go the other way around.

Rob Edwards

The condition of a particular 28 year old car (mostly the cosmetics, mechanical stuff is more easily attended to than paint/leather/upholstery) is way more important than any minor variation among '87s when originally built. If you want an '87 5-speed, I'd focus more on the color combination and overall condition way before I'd care about early vs. later features.


Early '87s have a couple of trivially interesting features-

The intake manifold lacks a few strengthening ribs around the flappy shaft (though the casting number on the later ribbed 87+ intakes is the same)

There are oil spray jets mounted in the block that spray the underside of the pistons when the oil pressure is greater than 4 bar- ostensibly a good thing if you're supercharging are S4

And there is the flip-up wing vs. a fixed wing bolted directly to the hatch. I guess I'd only have a preference if the car I was looking at had any play/wobble in the wing's attachment- the later fixed wing mounts can corrode internally and fixing it properly is a PITA.

EDIT- and Adam mentions wobbly flip-wing hinges. Again, the individual car must be assessed for this, fixed or flip.

RE: '87 vs. later S4s:

The fuel rails are different in '87 vs. later, and there's a screwy fuel return line that should be updated to 88+ spec when you replace all the fuel lines anyway.

'87 head bolts were black phosphate coated, changed to yellow cad in '88 for better 'bite' on the head washers during assembly.

The LH and EZK brains in '87 lack fault memory storage, introduced in '88.

'87s lack the thermal blanket on the heat shield above the cats.

'87s lack 3-point rear seatbelts, at least in the US/Canada

Minorly different ABS pump, cruise control brain, and security alarm for 88+


All of which is to say, find the best '87+ 5-speed in the best condition you can find. Early vs. late doesn't matter.

PorKen

The ribs are not for anti-icing?

Early '87 LH and EZK brains have the memory on their boards, the programming for fault checking just isn't present in the EPROMs. (Can be updated to later code.)

'89-up for the new bits, AFAIK, including key operated windows (via new alarm brain).

More:

'87 fuel rails also have rubber isolators which can/should be replaced with solid aluminum pieces.

'87 and early '88 have lower compression pistons.

BauerR

Thanks for the help, guys. Just confirming this car has LSD.

Speedtoys

will a later CC brain work in the early 87 then?

Rob Edwards

Post (or PM) the VIN and we can tell you whether the car was born with LSD. (Not that it's still there, or isn't completely worn out....)

RFJ

Hello, can you tell me what the difference is in compression ?the numbers for each? thanks,Ray

Madturk

I was told that same thing today on my early 87 parts car.

BauerR

WPOJBO924HS861247

thanks!

PorKen

https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...c-numbers.html

Rob Edwards

Folding wing was used up through 92HS861296. There are 2421 US/Canada '87s. if all cars between 860061 and 861296 had flip up wings, then there were 1236 US cars with flippers, and 1186 with fixed wings. So fixed wing '87s are 'rarer', for whatever that's worth.


We know the last 5-speed squirter engine was 81H00677.

There are 2421 US/Canada '87s. 1873 were automatics, and 548 were 5-speed, or 22.6%

There are 2366 ROW '87s, 1603 were autos and 763 were 5-speed, or 32%

So if we assume that US and ROW cars would have rolled off the line concurrently in equal numbers (NOT a valid assumption, necessarily...), the last squirter block (#677) would have ended up in roughly the 352nd US 5-speed, and the 324th Euro car. That equates to HS861609 being the last US 5-speed car with a squirter block.

If that's close to being correct, there are more 5-speed '87s that are squirters (~350) than not (~200ish.)


The ROW calculation is thrown off by the fact that the Japanese VINs start with HS869 (vs. 864 for all other ROW markets) and I don't know when they started building Japanese market 5-speeds, so the serial numbers are not sequential in the PET data.

We don't know the last autotragic with a squirter block, so that calculation is a little tougher as well.


All that trivia aside, Porsche could have continued the squirter thing, but they didn't. '88 Service info says it was because durability tests showed they weren't needed.

RE: market value, I agree that the first U.S 5-speed S4 (HS860066) would be worth an increment in price, but after that, not so sure. Would much rather have one of the 15 U.S. non-sunroof 5-speeds, for instance.


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