Hey guys..

I'm a new to me 996 owner, and I'm trying to help a neighbor buy a '90 928GT. It's this car:
http://www.redriverpca.org/1990-porsche-928/

Potential buyer is in Ontario and this car is in Manitoba so my neighbor calls the guy and gets some info on the car. He says it was imported from germany and gives him this VIN:
WP0ZZZ92ZLS860449

Says this is vin on the car. Says car was imported from germany to us then to canada in 2005. No carfax info available from that vin, however internet vin decoders show its a legit looking vin.

The seller also says that the vin on the registration is this other vin:
WP0JB2925LS860449.

Same chassis number but a USA vin. And I can do a carfax on that and it shows info from 2005 (canada entry) and on. But nothing before that.

Now it could be some miscommunication between my neighbor and the seller but can anyone explain this? Would an imported porsche get a new VIN with same chassis number?

We want to dig into this but before calling seller back with more questions I'd like to do a little research.

Quick back story - the seller states he knows the car and it's his elderly friend whos trying to sell it (potential red flag). So theres a bit of telephone tag involved. The seller gave him 2 different vin #'s (red flag). He did disclose there was a claim on it for a new windshield but cafax shows a non impact accident event of $5,000 (more than a windshield).

So if anyone has any info or experience please share I'd love to help my friend get a 928GT. For the $30,000 hes asking we should sort this out before moving forward.

Thanks,
Zak

 

WP0JB2925LS860449 and WP0ZZZ92ZLS840449 are two 1990 Automatic S4. The first one was delivered in Germany. The second was delivered in USA (California).

So they can not be a 1990 GT which is a manual only car.

The picture and the airbags are more consistent with the US car, if the VIN is right.

 

My guess and I often "guess" would be it is a USA car. Might have been exported to Japan when new and then made it to Canada..Many 928 have done so under your 15 year old exemption rules.
the later cars carry both Euro vin## stamped on the chassis and the other USA public vin in the windshield door jamb etc. so no mystery there.
Cars from Japan when older often are quite neglected and have sold for "bargain" prices. Which is why so many unusual cars make the trek to Canada The importers plan to make a lot of money.

 

That car does not look like a Euro. It has the North America corner lights.

The confusion may lie in where he is reading the VIN. I believe that the VIN stamped onto the sheetmetal under the hood near the passenger side fender shows a ZZZ vin. I think that they all do, for any market. Maybe the later cars don't, but I know my '87 is like this. But the VIN that you can see by the driver's side front windshield will be a non ZZZ vin for cars that were built for the North American market.

Ask him to send pics of the VIN that he is reading off of the car, and the build sticker in the handbook or under the rear hatch area carpet. Oh, and / or the one inside the drivers door. That will help you sort it out. But this appears to be a car built for North America originally.

The accident stuff, if the owner cannot produce documentation that mirrors the carfax report, you probably need to have the vehicle properly inspected.

 

Thanks for the reply guys..
928CS says the VIN shows the car as an Automatic, (EDIT: but I was told it was a manual). I also checked www.vindecoderz.com and it says the transmission and motor are A28.16 M28.42 and it has 314000km on odometer. How accurate could this be?

Heres more pics if anyone can tell me anything from looking. Thanks again.

Zak

 

Being only an automatic S 4 and NOT a GT 5 speed.....the asking price seems quite high especially with so little documentation. The selling for a friend is often used when a flipper does not want to register a car in his name....pay the fees . Has an open title from whomever he just bought it from. Any title issues and you have to chase down the owner and try to convince him to help you.

 

So you're saying it's not a GT. They didn't make an auto gt? However it's registered as a GT. The ownership says it's a GT and carfax says its a 1990 PORSCHE 928 S-4/GT.

I just let him know about the 2-vins. He just said he called porsche Canada... gave him the 2 VINS and they said it was a GT and gave the same explanation for the 2 VINs.

I appreciate the info guys, thanks.

Zak

 

Where are the pictures? You said in your post 'here's more pics', but I don't see them?

Get a pick of the build sticker and post it here. Everything will be 100% clear from that.

If it's a '90 S4 Auto with 314k km, it ain't worth anything close to $30k Cdn. I purchased an '87 S4 auto with 19k miles from up there for WAY under $20k Cdn last fall. Now there were circumstances associated with that sale, but still.

 

Oh my bad, forgot to include the link:

http://www.autotrader.ca/a/Porsche/9...&orup=11_15_11

Just reading up on the GT.. every source I can find on the internet says it was a manual only special edition car.

 

I don't have a complete answer for you but I have some background info that might help. In 1981/82 the US adopted the current 17 character VIN standard. After this, changing the VIN on ANY car from any country was supposed to be stopped. This was due to some funny stuff going on to imported and exported cars where the original VIN 'disappeared' and a new VIN was issued. As you can imagine, some nefarious folks took advantage of this on stolen cars and the old VIN new VIN matching database was never very accurate. So - after 1981 there was supposed to be no VIN changing. Whatever it left the factory with, that was supposed to be it forever.

Now, some other countries did not adhere to this policy. Maybe Japan or Canada didn't follow those rules and allowed a VIN to be superseded. Maybe that's where two VINs came from.

At this point, what needs to happen is for the car to go to a Porsche dealer and have them find out what VIN the car carried when it left the factory. That will start you on the journey to finding out if it is a realy GT with 5 speed, or a S4 with auto that has been converted. Carfax is stupid, they just put the S4/GT suffix on because they can't know the difference, so they lump them both together.

Here's another possibility. I've heard, but never confirmed that some cars left Zuffhausen with the S4 livery, and a customer sent it BACK to them for a conversion to GT specs. It's wildly expensive, and I'm sure extremely rare, but I know it's been done to 911s in the past, so it's possible that the car was returned and converted which would issue a new VIN by Porsche.

So, I don't have answers for you, but I certainly would take it to Porsche and find out what the car started with, then work forward. Here's a quick check. Look at the redline on the tach. If it's not at 6600, it is an S4 instrument pod. It may look like it's at 6200 or 6400 but only 6600 RPM tach was for the GT cars.

 

Well, this site isn't letting me edit my prev post. If you look at the pic of the inst panel you will notice the 6200RPM tach, and also the "PRND12" in the center indicating this was an S4 inst panel.

At this point you need the build codes off the engine near the oil fill tube, and the off the trans to know what you really have. Betting this was a factory S4 that was converted in the field to stick shift.

 

The pictures show that it is an automatic transmission with Jager shifter. He put 'GT' sticker on the back, but it's not. It's an S4. Post the build sticker and the story will come together.

The pics are small, but it doesn't look like a 300k plus km car. It looks in good condition. Not sure where you got the 300k kms from, but that if that was reported somewhere, I would want a proper PPI done.

Those euro side marker lights are not factory. The North American side marker lights are factory. Not sure who added (or why for that matter) the euro side marker lights in front of the side doors.

If the seller is still telling you it is a 5 speed, ask them to get in the car drive it for 30 seconds and send you the video showing them shifting the gears.

Jager Shift Levers

http://www.jageng.com/garage9/index.php?cPath=50_60

 

Cameron is correct. I just looked at the shift gate, and it's an auto trans. No 5 sp changeover. Sorry.

also appears someone did a LOT of careful work on rolling all the fenders. That takes time and skill. But - still an S4.

 

I agree.

This is certainly the Californian delivered S4.
Equipment:
I158: Radio
M418: Protective side mouldings
I498: Without rear model designation
M570: Rear AC
M650: Sunroof

 

You might want to private message WPGSHARK. He's a knowledgeable 928 guy in Winnipeg. He might be able to look at the car for you.