Signalmtb

I'm trying to find a succinct website/table that shows 928 counts by year by tranny type. I've found a few but nothing easy to follow.


I'm in the market for a 928 and prefer an S4 (87+) 5-speed but I know there's not many of them until you get into the late '89s GT which then prices skyrocket. I've found an '86 5-speed locally that is decent but would prefer the S4.


I also know that a MT swap is possible but not practical.

GregBBRD

Paging Rob Edwards, for production number analysis....

BTW, the 5 speed S4s are also skyrocketing in price...unless you find someone that is clueless about what is happening to 928 values.

I did a pre-purchase inspection on an '87 a couple of weeks ago. 32,500 negotiated purchase price. It was a better than average car, with under 100,000 miles and for a 928, needed a below average amount of work. Even so, that price indicated where the interest in these cars is headed.

Signalmtb

yeah, I know...they're starting to take off and I'm trying to get in one before they get too far out of reach.


So general question to the group:


All things being equal between 2 cars (mileage and condition and current price), which do you think is the better choice now AND which do you think will be more desirable later...


1986 5-speed or
1989 S4 auto

GregBBRD

Some people don't recognize the difference between 1986 and 1986.5 models.

I'm assuming you do and the above referenced car is actually an early 1986 model?

Signalmtb

yes, failed to mention that...yes, early model year '86 before the change

Rob Edwards

Here's a table for '80 to '95, it's missing something on the order of 500 cars, mostly from '85 and 86, not sure what proportion were auto vs. 5 speed.

Signalmtb

I'm guessing most of the '89 5-speeds are second half of the model year GTs. So my best bet are the '87 and '88 MY. That's 1013 to start, maybe half still on the road, probably only half of those aren't crap, and half of the those the owner wont part with... so I'm down to 1013 * 0.5 * 0.5 *0.5 which is ~125 potentially viable S4 5-speeds in the US. I'll take those odds.

Signalmtb

BUT, I don't want to lose track of my question:
All things being equal between 2 cars (mileage and condition and current price), which do you think is the better choice now AND which do you think will be more desirable later...


1986 5-speed or
1989 S4 auto

davek9

I'd buy the 86
If u don't want it, please pm me the details.
Thanks!

Dave K

Wisconsin Joe

I'm guessing that both cars are US models. There was no "86.5" Euro, all of them had the later features.

But...
If the 86 is an "S2" Euro (16 valve m28/21 motor) then that's the one, no questions asked.

Otherwise, the 89 is probably the better long term bet. S4 motor, suspension & brakes. Later body style, last year of the analog dash.

The later "SOB" (early body style) cars are in the "least likely to succeed" category. Middle of production, nothing super special or notable about them (outside of the S2 euros). 85 & 86 had the 5.0 32 valve, but it lacked power compared to the S4 motor that came shortly after.

Just my opinion, worth exactly what you paid for it.

Signalmtb

what do you mean when you say "The later "SOB" (early body style) cars are in the "least likely to succeed" category" ?


and yes, talking US spec cars, sorry to have not been clear about that.

Wisconsin Joe

For any collectible car, there are going to be certain years, styles and special editions that will be more valuable, others that will be less.

Typically, the first year of production, last year and "extra performance" models do best. Commemorative editions can do well, but not always. "First of" a particular feature also do well.

Mid-year models & lower powered models usually trail the pack in value.

Production numbers also play a big part. There were a lot of early-to-mid 80s cars produced (3 of 4 top years were "SOB" cars). There were less than 100 95 GTSs sold in the US.

For the slang - "OB" refers to "Old Body" (or a couple other "B" words) and is usually applied to the early cars - 78 & 79. Those were the original configuration (4.5l K-jet, no spoilers and a few other things). Original condition cars are starting to be worth real money.

"SOB" refers to "Sorta Old Body" and is usually applied to the 80-86 cars. For the US cars, 80-84 was pretty low powered, 16 valve, L-jet motors. Worth the least of all the cars. 85 & 86 (early 86) were not too bad. 5.0l, 32 valve motors. More power, but not a whole lot. They had the original suspension & brakes. Worth more, but not a lot more. 86.5 got the upgraded suspension & brakes, and is another step up on the performance ladder and price ladder.

In 87, the S4 came out. Better brakes & suspension, revised body (front & rear bumpers, fog/driving lights & taillights). S4 motor has a much better intake, and a few other odds & ends that bump up the power.

89 saw the intro of the GT, with a lot of upgrades. Since it was the first GT, and the only GT with analog dash without the airbag & PSD, it's got a price premium.

93 saw the GTS, which was the last model. Prices of those are through the roof.

So if you are looking for a car that is going to increase in value, the early 86 (even though it's a 5 speed) is among the least likely to increase, and if and when it does increase, it will go up the least amount.

And Euro SOB cars were rather different. The early 80s "S" had a 300 hp 4.7l K-jet motor, the 84-86 "S2" had the 310 hp high compression 4.7 LH2.2/EZF motor. Those command a premium from both a performance and rarity standpoint.

Rob Edwards

At the risk of being 'that' nitpicker, 89s had the digital dash. Although an 89 auto is a compelling car given that it has a shorter final drive, the digidash, lacks the complicated airbags and PSD, at the end of the day its still an automatic. You have to drive both and consider the environment in which youll be using it, then decide auto vs 5 speed, thats probably a more important decision point than 85-86 vs 87-95.

Wisconsin Joe

No worries on my part. Go ahead and be "That Nit-Picker."

I was running completely off memory and what I've learned in the last couple years. Obviously, I confused "Digital Dash" with "Airbag." Duh.

I welcome correction on anything else I got wrong.

SMTCapeCod

Also bear in mind the 'better' S4 intake is often compromised by a faulty element (flapper valve) when purchased from a non-enthusiast, and more importantly,

That the marginal increase in power over 85/86 is offset in part by a difference in weight.

The various series of 928 drive differently, as do the 5 speed v Auto of the same series and of course US v RoW where applicable. And different degrees of maintenance/upkeep have a huge effect on performance and responsiveness.

Along those lines, if performance and responsiveness are key considerations, also bear in mind that the S/SOB cars in auto form start in first gear under normal conditions- the S4 cars select it on WOT starts but under less throttle move off in 2nd.
More importantly, there are different differential ratios available across the model years- IIRC early S4s had a taller gear ratio that should up the fun factor.

Your local car might be a good initial entry point, with a planned transition as you learn/experience more.
On the other hand, 928 ownership is just one of many opportunities in life to (re)learn that 'settling' for a known fairly demanding partner, seldom brings fulfillment.