Wisconsin Joe

I have an 85 5 speed. I've followed the WSM to remove the clutch.

I've got the clamp between the short shaft and the torque tube undone and slid back.
I've got the TOB sleeve bolts out.
I've got the dowel pins pushed up & taken out the stepped one.
I've got the release lever off the ball at the top.
I've shimmed the bolt heads for the pressure plate and removed the mounting bolts.

The next step is "move entire clutch assembly back and remove downward."

It won't come out.
The whole thing moves back a little bit, but won't drop down. It kind of pivots downward, but won't drop out. I've got it as far back as it will go, the TOB sleeve won't go forward any more.

It feels like the short shaft is hung up in the back of the crank. Should I be able to pull that back? It only came back a little bit when I slid the clamp back.

Or am I missing something?

Wisconsin Joe

Ok, further research seems to show that the short shaft should simply slide back out of the pilot bearing at the back of the crank. It's not pulling easy, is it supposed to?

Does anyone have any suggestions for pulling that out?
My first guess would be to put the clamp tube back on and use that as a "ledge" to pry against.

Good idea? Bad idea?
Any better ideas?

davek9

I can't suggest that you do that, however the assembly is heavy, be careful it doesn't fall into your face.

Sounds like the shaft is stuck in the pilot bearing, maybe grasping the assembly and wiggle up and down while pulling it rearward.

Wisconsin Joe

Thanks. I've found the suggestion about not dropping it on your face. Sounds like a plan.

I can get the assembly to move back a bit, until the TOB sleeve hits the mount.

I tried up & down, and side to side wiggling.
It moves around a bit, but acts like it's hung up at the front.
If I pull the assembly back, it drops just a little, like the clutch places are sliding back on the shaft to the part with no splines.

I found this:

http://members.rennlist.com/jeifert/DD-CLUTCH-REP.html

And it seems he used the "Porta-Power" between the coupler (what I'm calling the clamp) and the guide tube.

Mrmerlin

instead of driving out the alignment pins and hammering on the thrust bearings,
I would suggest to do this instead.
Remove the two transmission mount bolts from the rear cross member .
remove the the 4 front bell housing bolts then screw them in about 3 turns.
push the trans axle back till the bell housing slides back on the 4 bolts.
this will leave you with enough room the clear the flywheel pins.
NOTE make sure that you have put the spacers on the 3 pins of the pressure plate. you need 3 MM wire, before you loosen the PP bolts.

NOTE make sure the the diagnostic crank trigger pins are positioned at the 6 O clock .

NOTE doing this will allow you to not have to hammer on the flywheel to drive the pins out.

NOTE the stub shaft is hard to remove because the discs are falling try pushing upwards a bit then the stub shaft will come out.

NOTE do a test fit you will need the stub shaft and the TOB collar to be installed.
once the stub shaft is fitted push it home into the pilot bearing the move it back about 2 to 3 MM,
this will put the shaft bearing surface centered into the pilot bearing.
mark the stub shaft at the back side of the TOB collar.
then remove the parts ,
install the clutch,
then position the stub shaft so your mark lines up to the guide tube.

Wisconsin Joe

Thank you MrMerlin. I will try that.

Wisconsin Joe

Ok, I tried to pull the pilot shaft again.

I took all the sideways pressure off the shaft. I put a couple bolts through the clutch pack into the flywheel. I put the TOB collar bolts in.

I put the coupler back on.

The shaft won't pull back.
I tried using a pry bar on the coupler clamp (used a block of wood as a fulcrum/protector).

It won't move at all.
It seems like the front of the shaft is stuck in the pilot bearing.

Anybody got any suggestions?

Mrmerlin

well without causing other damage ,
NOTE prying on the PP pack will possibly drive the pilot bearing into the inner disc and prevent movement.

drop the TT,
then remove the front bell housing,
then remove the clutch assembly,
then with the clutch out of the way you will have an easier time of repairing the pilot bearing.

Wisconsin Joe

What is the "PP pack"? Pressure plate pack. Duh.

Thanks for the rest. I was hoping that I wouldn't have to take that much apart, but it looks like I don't have a choice.

worf928

Hmmm... The intermediate shaft is corroded to the inner race of the pilot bearing. The outer race of the pilot bearing is corroded to the end of the crank shaft.

I would loosen the clutch pack again. Just enough to get room to see and to squirt penetrant on the nose of the intermediate shaft.

With the guide tube loose but the pressure plate re-bolted to the flywheel and the clamp clamped to the I-shaft, but not the drive-shaft, you may be able to work it free if the penetrant works.

Not with continuous pressure but with impulse loading (i.e. tapping) while rotating the assembly. As long as you are careful that your lever and hammer aren't damaging anything and that you are trying to force the clamp back I can't visualize a way to make things a lot worse. Make sure the clamp bolt is tight.

Note that getting either race of the pilot bearing loose will enable you to get the assembly out.

However, if tap and rotate, lather rinse repeat doesn't work, then the next steps are as Stan describes above.

James Bailey

The end of the clutch shaft will sometimes spin on the inner race and nearly friction weld in place when the pilot bearing has seized. It often damages the shaft you may find that the pilot bearing will come out stuck on the shaft. It will take quite a bit of force in a very awkward space.

Wisconsin Joe

Thank you both for those responses. I was thinking about spraying some penetrant up there, but wasn't sure it was a good idea. Is there any issue with getting penetrating oil on the friction discs?

Work will be getting in the way, so the penetrating oil will have some extra time to work (that was kind of nice for the clamp/coupler bolts).

worf928

No. Because after all this work you are going to buy new ones...

You'll be getting a new t/o bearing, ball cup, pilot bearing, two new pinch bolts for the clamp and friction discs. There's not much point in doing this job just to have to do it again in a year or two.

If you are lucky you will not need a new intermediate shaft.

And you might as well have the flywheel surfaced.

Do it once. Do it right. And you won't have to worry about it again.

Lizard928

I wouldn't bother removing the TT or bellhousing.

Support the clutch pack so that it cannot fall or move down.
Slide the coupler back onto the stub shaft and put the bolt through the stub shaft only. You can then use a very large screwdriver to lever the stub shaft rearward. Do not lever against the two tabs which holt the guide tube or you will require a new bellhousing.
Once you get the shaft to move, then remove the pinch bolt and slide the coupler rearward.
At the point the bearing is shot, if you get it to come out in one piece, things got easier.
Either way it needs to be replaced, and the stub shaft will likely need attention too.

Wisconsin Joe

I was hoping to avoid replacing the friction discs. They don't seem to be worn too much.
And I don't really mind going back in. If the Pilot Shaft (or intermediate shaft, or short shaft) had come out easily, this would be the easiest clutch job I've ever seen. No trans drop or engine pull, just bell housing cover, coupler clamp, TOB sleeve, and clutch bolts.

The bearings were making noise, so I went in after them. Apparently the pilot bearing has either heated and seized or corroded.

Yay.

And I tried Colin's method with no success.