christiandk

What do you think guys. Condition, color, documentation being similar

I would probably rank them like this (prototypes and special models like CS excepted) prices descending:

1995 GTS Manual

GTS Manual (Edit, thanks Nixon)

GT

1978 Manual

1995 GTS Auto

GTS Auto

86.5 Euro Manual

S4 manual

1978 Auto

The rest?

EDIT
Dated but interesting!

http://meshnewengland.com/expert-art...st-in-now.html

rnixon

What about the pre-'95 GTS?

I don't see a '78 manual being worth more than a '95 GTS auto personally. The older cars, whilst sometimes rare and significant to the 928 story, don't do it for me. Values there seem to be much lower than later cars, unless they're really rare and find the right buyer.

Perhaps it's personal taste, but I'd put a GTS Auto above a GT.

I'm neither a buyer nor a seller now though

Hilton

IMO, for manual base models, assuming similar level of exterior/interior condition:

94/95 GTS Manual
Other manual GTS'
91 GT
77/78 manual
89GT (closest production model to a clubsport)
90GT
S4
Euro '86 (last 16V year - the 16V "GTS")
Euro '85 (most recent "Euro" usually found as grey import in USA - also the 310hp motor)
US 86.5
Euro '84
Any other CIS car (79-83)
Any L-jet car (USA 80-84)

I think its possible a '77/78 manual might actually have higher value than a 91 GT, if the condition is the same. However, most GT's are 12-15 years younger (depending on production dates) which makes a big difference to average condition and especially the interior, so I think the current sales data skews the above list. A good-condition '77 is possibly already more rare than a good-condition '91 GT.

86.5 Euro manual is meaningless - 86.5 is a US-market thing, where early '86 still got old factory parts for brakes/chassis etc. All "Euro" '86 cars have the later style chassis/brakes/suspension.

I also didn't put automatics in the above list - I think the collectors market doesn't value them in the same way. For a daily driver, there's a lot of value to be found in an Auto GTS, but for value appreciation, I think there's little there. I could put "Auto GTS" in possibly above 91 GT, or maybe after "77/78 manual", above based on historical sales, but I think in today's market, they're already starting to fall below the value of a good GT.

I said "base model" in the opening sentence. One of the really interesting aspects of the 928 is the massive variation not just in technical specs between every single model year, but also in options packages. This car was commonly a custom-order, and there are cars out there with interesting options which massively affect their value due to uniqueness or sheer excess.

A few examples:
* Mark A's newly acquired Cobalt Blue GT with the linen leather and rootwood interior.
* The GTS linked in Nicole's sig that showed up at Motorsport SLC for service with crazy full-leather exclusiv options.
* The yellow GTS which has been stalked all over Texas
* The only USA-delivered no-sunroof manual GTS, which periodically goes through Willhoit's hands.
* Afshin's old concours-prepped GT with full leather and rootwood
* The low-miles manual '87 S4 with full Mahogany interior

The problem the market faces is how to value these (many) unique cars. For now its a crapshoot as to whether they fetch any more than a base-spec model of the same year.

Its a problem which will resolve itself over time, as the 928 comes to greater awareness among Porsche collectors due to its combination of clean-sheet design and driving experience, at which point, the uniquely-optioned models will outperform their brethren, and upset the balance of my model list above. e.g. IMO a Rootwood GT will likely outvalue a 93 manual GTS in the next year or two, if not already.

The wildcard for entry into the appreciation game is automatics with some interesting/unusual cosmetic exclusiv options (i.e. not just painted wheel crests).

christiandk

Great reply Hilton. However the 86.5 S Euro had the new brakes etc. with the powerfull 4.7 310 hp engine (rumors has it that it produces 330+ hp) if I recall correctly.

Jadz928

Hilton is well-tuned-in. Agree almost spot-on!

The 85-86 US 32V is the only one missing (rank it one down from 86.5)

Like Hilton said, there is no 86.5 Euro 16V. All 86 Euro 16V had S4 brakes so need need for split designation.

christiandk

Well I stand corrected

ROG100

All 86 ROW S3 32v ROW cars had the S4 upgrades as well

christiandk

Werent they 16v? I have to refreshen my memory.......

ROG100

If you are going to come up with a proper list you need to add in the Weissach and Jubilee cars as well as CS and SE cars. These will outstrip any comparable year cars by miles - you only need to check similar types and years in 911's as an example.
As the 928 was always designed as a high speed cruiser, auto features highly. Unfortunately some were made with manual boxes which clouds the market 8>).
As an avid buyer I value Auto cars higher than manual cars.

ROG100

Listen carefully Grasshopper 8>)

ROG100

89GT (closest production model to a clubsport) - I think the SE was the closest and was in production long before the GT.

Hilton

Thanks Jim for mentioning the 85/86 US models! Slipped my mind

A quick re-read of my post, and there's a few points which should be bold..

(I addressed the points in order, then decided to stick 4 up here).

4. Opportunity

The fact that the market doesn't yet value 928's yet is an opportunity. Sure, there's the buying opportunity of finding a car which will rise faster than its stable mates, which is nice, but also..

If you have a condition 3 (Hagerty scale) car, then with some elbow grease, you can make it into a condition 2 car.

1. Condition is KING and its getting harder to find.

98% of the early cars are dogs. The 2% which aren't almost never change hands, let alone do it in public. I think Kermit (ChuckZ's old early car) holds the current benchmark for early manual cars, and I can't think of any other really good early car which has traded hands publicly since then. It did however beat the price of pretty much all GT's and a large number of manual GTS'.

Ed's Blumax is another example - fantastic cosmetic condition, and Jim's prototype cars excepted, Blumax is one of the few early cars I can recall seeing which would challenge Kermit for the crown.

Even the later cars are rapidly separating by condition - as they age, the ones which aren't as well looked after age badly. A running manual '89 S4 can be valued anywhere between $7k and $25k - that spread is huge.

Everyone should be watching Rob Edwards' work on the Cobalt 91 GT and deciding whether they want to do the same. Recovering as much of the aging as possible while still being "original" is the key there.

Or you decide to go aftermarket (seat covers, carpets, etc.), in which case you'll always be second-fiddle.

2. Visibility of "specialness"

If you're looking for an optioned car in good condition, you need to choose options which are clearly special. Stuff like a factory leather pod or dashboard, and pearl paint, are all good because people can easily see them through the open window at shows.

The more expensive the option, the better too. If you have a showroom sticker that sets your car as being many thousands of dollars more than list price, it will repay you in value increases.

If you can find a car with factory bodywork variations like flatnose pop-up lights or round, wider, rear arches, then thats even better (yes, these do exist).

3. Special models - e.g. clubsport, prototypes

These are a law unto themselves. They're few in number, and even the dogs will eventually be worth crazy money.

Whilst the 89 GT is a production equivalent, it doesn't have the rarity-factor, so will always be an also-ran in the one-upmanship which is the world of car collecting.

The real special models are:

• Factory prototypes (Jim's cars, plus the ones that are yet to be found)
• Clubsports
• RHD SE
• "GTE" edition (maybe - needs clearer documentation, which Samuel is working on)
• Jubilee Edition
• Weissach edition
• Any cars in the Porsche museum collection (probably never for sale unless someone at VW has it in for Porsche )

There, my analysis is done. It'll be interesting to look back on this in a few years time.

ROG100

Hilton spot on now - 8>)

You missed out the S3 ROW 32v a lot of which are in your own Country.

Mrmerlin

Would you figure the Elfenbein Perlglanz car to have any increased value ?
This due to it being a copy of the 10th anniversary show car from 1987 Frankfurt auto show?
It still wears original paint and and interior.
Approx miles are now 113500,
it was gone through back in 2005
Every system was refreshed

Hilton

Heh I was writing my second treatise while you posted. Weissach/Jubilee etc. are in that.

The SE is in my opinion a special edition, and not lumped in with the general "production models", due to there being only 42 of them. Its the RHD clubsport, with added luxury/weight.

As for auto, I'm not disputing that some people prefer to drive them. I'm just saying that the collectors market for cars consistently values manuals higher than autos for otherwise identical cars, and if you look at the Porsche collector world, it polarises even more than classic Merc's/BMW/Jags. (<cough> PDK GT3 anyone? <cough>).